# Baking Cookies: What the hell is going on here? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 16, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817 "2014-03-16T04:02:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/21 "2014-03-16T21:26:01Z")
One thing they left out of the Toll House recipe on the bag of chips was chilling the dough _overnight._ ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/22 "2014-03-16T21:31:55Z")
Ask any dietitian today, and you’ll find that partially hydrogenated vegetable oil (margarine, trans fat) is more dangerous for old folks than butter. There’s no trans fat in butter. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/23 "2014-03-17T02:56:19Z")
> [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](#): > > Many classic recipes assume an old fashion flour. I assume you get a generic Sysco flour? I’d hope that would work just fine, but wanted to bring it up just in case. Yeah, the basic “H&R” flour. Somebody mentioned the age of the cream of tartar (what the hell is that, anyway?) and the baking soda. I have no idea how old they are. The CoT is from Farmer’s Brothers, in a fairly large container, and it’s been there since before I started this job late last August. The baking soda packages were ordered by the case, and we’ve been working through that case, but I think it was also there before me. Thanks for the various suggestions about changing the amount of flour. I’ll experiment with that. I’ve had similar problems with other types of cookies, where the edges of the cookies spread out thin. Even oatmeal cookies, which have the oatmeal to help them hold their shape, are spreading thin on the edges. The snickerdoodles were just extremely dramatic in their spread. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/24 "2014-03-17T15:47:52Z")
> [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](#): > > Look at that…you corrected a baking failure. 🙂 Yeah I probably wouldn’t have even considered that a failure in the first place. I reserve the term “complete baking failure” for something you can’t even serve. I can’t give you any advice for fixing them that hasn’t already been given. But, if you find you can’t fix them, don’t be afraid of experimenting with how you serve them. Things that look a little off add that “home-made” feel that some people love. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/25 "2014-03-17T15:48:52Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Ask any dietitian today, and you’ll find that partially hydrogenated vegetable oil (margarine, trans fat) is more dangerous for old folks than butter. There’s no trans fat in butter. Yeah, but I doubt the OP is the one deciding what to use. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/26 "2014-03-17T15:52:17Z")
How about changing up your lineup and adding in some bar cookies? Lemon bars are a nice ‘old fashioned’ cookie, different from the run of the mill chocolate chip cookies. Although there are a fair number of interesting cookies out there. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/27 "2014-03-17T16:39:10Z")
I’d be funny if the snickerdoodle wafers were an unintentional hit and were actually requested- it’d be kind of like the origin of the potato chip. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/28 "2014-03-17T17:37:13Z")
My mother used to wonder why her chocolate chip cookies, which once were thick and chewy, started coming out thin and crispy. She eventually figured out that it started happening when she switched from butter to margarine on my father’s doctor’s orders. Margarine has a higher water content than butter, so cookies made with margarine don’t hold their shape, and spread out more. If you have to use margarine, then you should either decrease the amount of liquid in the recipe or increase the amount of flour to make up the difference. BTW, cream of tartar is tartaric acid, which reacts with the baking soda in the recipe to make the dough rise. Remember the grade school experiment of mixing vinegar with baking soda to make carbon dioxide? Well, you don’t want to put vinegar in cookies. Cream of tartar does the same thing, but is tasteless in the finished product. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/29 "2014-03-17T17:44:07Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Somebody mentioned the age of the cream of tartar (what the hell is that, anyway?) It’s an acidifying agent. Specifically, tartaric acid. The only thing I’ve ever personally used it in is meringue or a souffle, where it somehow makes your egg foam less susceptible to humidity and such. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/30 "2014-03-17T18:24:33Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > It was probably not the margarine, but _may_ have been the leavening. When did you last use that cream of tartar and baking soda? I wish I could have seen and tasted/tested them. I do always like to chill dough if possible. Also, don’t let the dough sit at room temperature for a long time, the leavening will still be “trying” to work and you won’t get the same baking quality. > > The best overall tutorial on cookies was an Alton Brown episode titled _"Three Chips for Sister Marsha_" Bet you could find it online somewhere. > > I bake large amounts as I’m a baker in a cafe, so I know about trying to reduce ingredients. > > If you can find a used copy of _The Betty Crocker Cookie Book"_ it’s worth it. I think it may even still be in print, it was very popular. Simple and easy to use recipes, with info on ingredients, and it even has a section with a few sized up recipes, for larger amounts of dough. > > Here’s a transcript of that AB episode > > [http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/season3/Cookie/CookieTranscript.htm](http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/season3/Cookie/CookieTranscript.htm) I also use that cookie book and it’s fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![dwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwyr/32/363_2.png) [@dwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwyr)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/31 "2014-03-17T22:51:07Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > …Somebody mentioned the age of the cream of tartar (what the hell is that, anyway?) … Interestingly, it’s a byproduct of wine making, comes from grapes. I sometimes make jelly from fresh concord grapes and have to let the juice sit overnight to let the tartrate crystals precipitate out or otherwise the jelly will be crunchy. Edited to add that [Betty Crocker’s Cooky Book](http://www.amazon.com/Betty-Crockers-Cooky-Facsimile-Edition/dp/0764566377) is available on Amazon. I learned to make cookies in grade school using that book and recently picked up a copy. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/32 "2014-03-18T02:29:19Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Yeah, the basic “H&R” flour. > > Somebody mentioned the age of the cream of tartar (what the hell is that, anyway?) and the baking soda. I have no idea how old they are. The CoT is from Farmer’s Brothers, in a fairly large container, and it’s been there since before I started this job late last August. The baking soda packages were ordered by the case, and we’ve been working through that case, but I think it was also there before me. Cream of Tartar and Baking Soda are both really cheap, and a batch only needs a little bit. If you have any friends who bake, borrow a few tbsps from them and see if it helps. Or you could buy some at the store yourself. Unless there are rules against outside ingredients…in which case maybe you could make the batch just to find out if it’s the issue, and not serve the results. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/33 "2014-03-18T02:39:52Z")
The stick margarine we baked with back in the 60’s and 70’s, when I made Snickerdoodles every week with margarine, is not the same as the stick margarine you find most commonly today. Finding margarine that is truly margarine, and not a vegetable oil spread, is hard…you really have to check the packaging, and many stores just don’t stock it anymore. So I’ve switched to baking only with butter these days. [This](http://www.landolakes.com/Blog/is-it-a-butter-margarine-or-spread-they-are-not-created-equ) explains a little better (and yes, it is a blog from a margarine company, but it is the quickest example I can find). ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817/34 "2014-03-18T03:09:27Z")
Now that I think about it, I remember a similar issue with the chocolate chip cookies I used to bake when I was a teenager. The recipe came from the Better Homes & Gardens cookbook (a '60s or '70s edition - I looked at a more recent edition and the recipe is not the same now). When I baked those cookies, they were awesome. They were always a big hit when I took a batch to a church potluck. The recipe called for shortening, but sometimes we were out of shortening and I would substitute margarine … and they did much the same thing that the snickerdoodles in my OP did. They would spread out more, and be thinner, and just weren’t as good. I did like it when Crisco came out with their butter-flavored shortening. My cookies came out the same as always, but had that extra buttery flavor to them. > [@BigT](#): > > Yeah, but I doubt the OP is the one deciding what to use. Indeed. Our corporate overlords dictate what we can use. And while they claim that we use margarine for “health reasons”, I suspect it’s more that margarine is cheaper than butter. Anyway, today I made the Oatmeal Chocolate Chip cookies from the Joy of Cooking book, and they came out perfectly, even with the margarine (and even cooking them in the convection oven). I suppose the oatmeal supports the cookie’s structure and helps prevent spreading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baking-cookies-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here/683817.md?page=1)