# Baldur's Gate 3! {finally Released August 3rd, 2023} **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** video-games-e-games\ **Created:** [February 28, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681 "2020-02-28T23:42:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/41 "2020-03-04T00:56:34Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > 13 right? > > I know I’ve asked this a few years ago, but how’s that whole thing handled now? I don’t know any different, but THAC0 made sense at the time. As of 3rd edition, you roll a d20, add all of your hit bonuses, and if your total is equal to or higher than your target’s AC, you hit them. I have no idea why they ever did it any different than that. Old school game design was fucking weird. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/42 "2020-03-04T01:28:38Z")
Yeah, even if the only thing 3rd edition did was to turn all the numbers right-side-up, it would have been worth it. But while you can turn on the option to display all the numbers in Baldur’s Gate, you don’t need to. Just let it do the math for you, and sometimes you hit and sometimes you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/43 "2020-03-04T06:39:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > As of 3rd edition, you roll a d20, add all of your hit bonuses, and if your total is equal to or higher than your target’s AC, you hit them. > > I have no idea why they ever did it any different than that. Old school game design was fucking weird. And saving throws were great because you had to figure out which one to use (since they didn’t mean what they seemed to mean), and then you had thief skills which were percentile based, and then the grappling rules and punching rules were a whole different combat system… 2E seemed like a bunch of different people wrote parts of the book, making up completely different and unrelated mechanical systems, without collaborating with or even talking to each other, then after each person was done they stuck them all together and sent that scrapbook mess off to be published. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/44 "2020-03-04T08:03:11Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > And saving throws were great because you had to figure out which one to use (since they didn’t mean what they seemed to mean), and then you had thief skills which were percentile based, and then the grappling rules and punching rules were a whole different combat system… > > 2E seemed like a bunch of different people wrote parts of the book, making up completely different and unrelated mechanical systems, without collaborating with or even talking to each other, then after each person was done they stuck them all together and sent that scrapbook mess off to be published. And yet, it was still better than 1st edition. Remember Fighter 18 Strength percentiles? I remember when THAC0 was first introduced (IIRC, it appeared in a 1st Edition expansion before it was made part of 2nd Edition). It was considered an improvement on looking at a goddamn table every time you rolled an attack. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/45 "2020-03-04T12:27:49Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I prefer turn-based, but only if there is an intelligent quick battle system for the thousand fights with worthless scrubs, I don’t wanna have to assign orders to kill 2 Kobalds a hundred times, but I also don’t want the computer blowing a fireball in my stead, to kill them. I agree that it’s nice to have AI scripts when it comes to the mopping-up phase of the battle. I also agree that there are some pretty dumb AI scripts out there! ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/46 "2020-03-04T15:50:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > And yet, it was still better than 1st edition. Remember Fighter 18 Strength percentiles? > > I remember when THAC0 was first introduced (IIRC, it appeared in a 1st Edition expansion before it was made part of 2nd Edition). It was considered an improvement on looking at a goddamn table every time you rolled an attack. I remember not liking it when Neverwinter Nights moved to the normal AC system from the THAC0 system the Baldur’s Gate games used. Somehow having an AC of -4 was much cooler than having an AC of 23. It’s of course just what I was used to, and the new system makes a lot more sense. The old DnD editions had some other strange things. I remember playing an early edition where Elf and Dwarf were character classes instead of races. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/47 "2020-03-04T17:42:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > And yet, it was still better than 1st edition. Remember Fighter 18 Strength percentiles? Percentile strength was still a thing in 2nd ed. IIRC, it was more of a thing than it was in AD&D, where it was originally introduced as a special class feature just for cavaliers. 2nd ed. made it a standard rule for all the “warrior” classes. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/48 "2020-03-04T18:00:46Z")
IIRC, in the First Edition Player’s Handbook, the to-hit table wasn’t even in the Player’s Handbook: a single page in the Dungeonmaster’s Guide had tables for every class. The tables had an underlying logic, but it was pretty opaque. THAC0 struck me as a brilliant innovation when I finally saw it: you could write a single number on your character sheet and use it to perform a subtraction calculation with any enemy’s armor class! I think 2Ed also got rid of the weapon-speed table and the modifier vs. specific forms of armor table. Given that these tables never ever saw use, though, that didn’t matter as much. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/49 "2020-03-04T19:36:26Z")
[Weapon speed was also a 2nd ed. thing.](https://people.wku.edu/charles.plemons/ad&d/misc/arms.html) Effectiveness versus armor type died with the 1st edition, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/50 "2020-03-04T20:18:18Z")
One of the [early Cecil columns](https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/278/whats-the-deal-with-dungeons-and-dragons/) that got me hooked back way back when, had this gem of a phrase: _The rule book is laden with such mystifying pronouncements as the following: “An ancient spell-using red dragon of huge size with 88 hits points has a BXPV of 1300, XP/HP total of 1408, SAXPB of 2800 (armor class plus special defense plus high intelligence plus saving throw bonus due to h.p./die), and an EAXPA of 2550 (major breath weapon plus spell use plus attack damage of 3-30/bite) — totalling 7758 h.p.” Here we have a game that combines the charm of a Pentagon briefing with the excitement of double-entry bookkeeping._ I had to laugh. Partly at myself, for understanding that ridiculous excerpt perfectly :p. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/51 "2020-03-04T20:26:17Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > \*— totalling 7758 h.p.” \* Shouldn’t that be xp not hp? 😉 7000+ hp would have taken a party of 50 and 3 weeks to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/52 "2020-03-04T23:31:55Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Shouldn’t that be xp not hp? 😉 Almost certainly :). Hard to say whose typo that was, though. Those early manuals had some shit editing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/53 "2020-03-05T22:22:23Z")
Weapon effectiveness vs. armor type was an optional rule in 2nd edition, but relevantly, it was an optional rule that was included in Baldur’s Gate (and, in fact, expanded: In the book, armors had different effectiveness vs. piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning, but the computer game added a fourth category for ranged). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/54 "2020-03-05T22:22:25Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > I like the original BG but didn’t really like the 2nd Edition. Hopefully this will be better. I plan to buy. I liked SOA more than the Original Baldur’s Gate I think. All the NPC storylines were nice. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/55 "2020-03-05T22:29:05Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I have played plenty of old school D&D games, and wizards starting battle with (say) immediate immunity to non-magical and magical weapons was not a thing I ever encountered. YMMV, of course. Spell trigger changed that. I think the 5E rules do a good job of balancing classes. You used to carry the wizard until he got to level 6 and before he could pull his weight. Then at some point you became his henchman. THat’s when you take the +6 sword he conjured up for you and cut off his hand, cut out his eye and kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/56 "2020-03-07T18:00:02Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Spell trigger changed that. > > I think the 5E rules do a good job of balancing classes. You used to carry the wizard until he got to level 6 and before he could pull his weight. Then at some point you became his henchman. THat’s when you take the +6 sword he conjured up for you and cut off his hand, cut out his eye and kill him. You forgot to also [cut off his head](https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Head_of_Vecna)… All of those magical and physical damage protections, and what dispelled them----collectively, ‘mage chess’—were a difficult thing to memorize. Poisoned throwing daggers were a good low level way to end that foolishness, IME, as mages typically had laughable saves v Poison, poison counted as elemental damage (Stoneskin wouldn’t stop it) and the daggers were non-magical. Spam those at the annoyance, if you couldn’t Breach or Dispel his stuff, and you were usually good to go. Insta-casting 10 spells by the enemy mage got to be really annoying. Especially if you ostensibly surprised the bugger. OTOH, who wouldn’t have Stoneskin up 24/7 if you were in a D&D world? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/57 "2023-06-30T15:25:11Z")
This game will keep me busy for a couple months: > **[Baldur’s Gate 3 Standard Playthrough Takes 75 to 100 Hours, Larian Says - IGN](https://www.ign.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-standard-playthrough-takes-75-to-100-hours-larian-says)** > > If you want to squeeze in a standard playthrough of Baldur's Gate 3 before Starfield comes out, you'll need to put in 75 to 100 hours. Also, the game release is being moved forward on PC to Aug 3 so it does not have to fight with the release of Starfield. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/58 "2023-07-02T14:28:49Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > My favourite retro-clone has been Pillars of Eternity, which I really enjoyed. I haven’t played Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire yet. Update: since the last time I posted in this thread, I have played (most of) Pathfinder: Kingmaker which is a pretty fun Baldur’s Gate-style game. Unfortunately, it has performance issues on the Xbox (which I’m playing it on) and the same is apparently true for Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/59 "2023-07-14T14:17:11Z")
Can anyone tell me the difference between a Wizard and a Sorcerer in BG3? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681/60 "2023-07-14T23:11:50Z")
Wizards are prepared casters, they have to pick which spells they can cast during each rest period. They can also learn all spells in the game through scrolls. Sorcerers are spontaneous casters, they get a set number of spells per day and can use them on any spells they know at will, but they only learn new spells at level up. This is the generic wizard/sorcerer difference, no idea if that is how it works in BG3 to be honest, but I would be very surprised if there was any significant difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baldurs-gate-3-finally-released-august-3rd-2023/848681.md?page=4)