Hey those tieflings were told to vamoose but noooo it was too scary dangerous out there. How’d that work out for ya, Zevlor?
The goal in attacking the Grove was never to kill a bunch of random-ass tieflings, they just refused to get out of the way!
Edit: Spoiler tags were acting super weird and refused to blur all of that without breaking it up.
Yep, that’s what I meant.
FWIW I dislike counterspell in general. As a player it’s so good that any other use of a spell slot or reaction feels like a waste, so I never take it. As a DM, I dislike anything that says “nah that doesn’t actually happen and also there goes your turn,” so I don’t put it on my bad guys.
Used the hell out of it in BG3, though. When you have four characters it feels fine to let one of them pay the counterspell tax.
If it’s too powerful, consider two changes:
At 13th level, if I see a disintegrate coming at me, I might use my seventh-level slot to counterspell it, because it’s life-or-death. But if I see a Heal spell or Planar Ally go off, I might let it go, saving that slot for next turn’s Prismatic Spray.
Yeah…the “not interested” thing will usually stop the flood of similar videos (you may have to do it multiple times over a few days but the algorithm will get the clue…a bit of a fuss but not too bad).
Still using the Bane gloves in Act 2!
I did find one nice merchant benefit to going evil: If you tell the bugbear quartermaster in Moonrise that you burned the Grove to the ground, he congratulates you and you get max approval from him, significantly lowering prices. Now I almost feel bad about having stolen all his best stuff! Not really.
I’ve broken my oath for the third time, twice to BS prison bugs/mechanics…so I respecced Halsin as a Pally and now him and I have this “Thor-Hyperion” thing going…kind of a deep cut there.
Tales of Evil, Not Really Evil Edition
I am about to hit up the Shar Temple but wanted to try rescuing Wulbren from Moonrise since some magical C4 could come in handy later. Barcus was a casualty to the Last Light Inn Massacre but that didn’t stop me from namedropping him to get Wulbren’s trust. What I didn’t want was to lose my good standing in Moonrise so I decided to try shenanigans instead. I tried to cast a Wall of Stone in front of the prison/alarm levers but it wouldn’t let me so instead I stacked a bajillion crates and barrels all over it. That… didn’t work and the Warden just clipped through them to sound the alarm. Boo.
Undeterred and willing to exploit F5/F8, I moved all my packaging materials to build a wall in front of Wulbren’s cell to keep the guards from following. This didn’t really work either, except it kind of did? I gave Wulbren the all clear, dashed up the outside of the Warden Tower where I was out of sight, the guards still clipped through the Crate Wall of China after the gnomes but I didn’t get aggro. A moment later, I fast traveled outside, looked and the journal updated to say that Wulbren escaped! I walked back into Moonrise and everyone was still glad to see me… so success.
Tales of evil…well just incompetent and focused on saving the world
The assault on Moonrise Tower was a slaughter. NPCs are idiots. MY guys went in, did a strike and moved back out so the enemy would follow me and get choked in that hallway…oh whats that? My allies went in and got massacred? Just plowed ahead?
I wont share much else because of spoilers…but I’ve gotten so many people killed cause I just didn’t know I was supposed to save them or I did quests out of order. And I’m well over some of my companions crying and wailing. Don’t like it? Take a fucking hike.
I do agree that it’s not fun to have a spell countered. I did that to a player in my Monday group (although PF1). It was a Haste spell so a good choice for the bad guy to stop. It forced the player to find a way to get out of line of sight so his character could cast spells.
On the other hand, I had Gale counter a lot of spells and the next thing I know, he’s out of slots! He’s casting two spells per round and combat usually lasts three rounds. He easily runs out of his highest level spell slots and usually the next lower level very quickly. Due to that, I had long runs where he was just casting cantrips. It felt like a waste not to have fireball going off. Yes, he can use points to get some slots back but those are used up fast.
So, I have felt the pain of counterspelling a lot. Conversely, at the table, they don’t often have as many fights in a day that I have in BG3, so the tax for it at the table isn’t near as high, imo.
I don’t prefer LHoD ideas. It sucks as a player but it cost the opposing team their reaction and at least an equal level spell slot to counter it. If it requires a higher level spell slot, then I don’t think it would be used as often when I do think it’s a valid tactic. Further, I don’t know that losing a fireball to counter Scorching Ray is an equal trade off. I’m not even sure if it’s worth it to lose Cone of Cold to counter Wall of Fire but again that’s just my thoughts on it.
The “too powerful” concern is mostly player-side for me. I don’t like having stuff so useful that it’s usually the best option, especially when the whole point of spellcasters is that they’re buckets of options.
As a DM I try to avoid anything that feels uninteractive. I’d rather have a “yes, but…” than an “actually, no.”
There’s an Act III boss in BG who has crazy reactions to spells cast against them until you do stuff to remove that ability. That’s the kind of “yes, but…” solution I love and so much cooler than just making spells and actions go zzzzt.
Added to this, Counterspell just feels boring. It doesn’t evoke any sort of epic wizard duel, it’s just “He cast this, no he doesn’t, you cast that, no you don’t” until people have few enough slots that they can’t afford to use them. Even played out in BG3, it’s just Gale going “Bzzt”.
It sounds like it’s effectively removing spellcasting from a fight. I mean, if I was playing a wizard at the table and I was doing everything to counter the enemy’s magic, at least I feel like I’m contributing. But it still seems kind of boring because my spell slots are getting all used up, and I’m not doing what I do best. Time for some cantrips, or maybe I can just throw rocks at them.
Acts of Evil: Maybe Penultimate Edition
(I figured someone might find it interesting since a few people said they’d never do an Evil run themselves)
After busting Wulbren out of prison, I went up in Moonrise to talk to Disciple Z’rell. She tasked me with finding Balthazar and helping him retrieve the Nightsong. She also gave me the keys to Balth’s bedroom so I could grab a Moon Lantern for the trip with a warning not to snoop in his underwear drawer. Naturally, we snooped all the snooping and took anything valued over 1gp before heading out. We also talked to Radija (sp?) who tells us that we’re not ready to ascend the stairs yet but, when we ask if she’ll stop us, shrugs and says it’s your funeral.
Since the door is red-flagged, touching it still gets you the whole disapproving NPC glare but I used Druidic Invisibility, aka Fog Cloud, to head on up. I meet some priestess who tells me to go away, assure her that I will go away and ignore her to go up some more, find my Drider buddy Kar’niss and walk in on Mr. Thorm himself. He isn’t a fan of my take-charge attitude and attacks and, since he’s currently immortal, that’s about that.
Ok, I didn’t think that was going to work but I had to at least try it. This time we head off to Shar Temple (I’m skipping a description of the other assorted activities on the map), make a deal with Raphael to kill a devil inside in exchange for some translation services (does Karlach read Infernal? I haven’t played with both her and Astarion in group) do all the Shar Temple stuff, trick the devil into suicide, lick the spider because ya gotta lick the spider, find Balthazar and offer to help, get his golem bell that I never used AGAIN (really, no fight in this area needs a golem helper), run the trials and step into the pool.
Moon-jumping through the Shadowfell never gets old. We catch up with Balthazar and I’m faced with two choice, neither of which involve Dame Aylin seeing her girlfriend again: allow Balthazar to carry her off or have Shadowheart punch her Shar Loyalty card right through the Nightsong’s stomach. If you side with Balthazar, there’s not enough Nat 20s in the world to convince Shadowheart that getting 99% to her life goal is good enough and Ms. Heart immediately leaves the group. When you return to Moonrise, you get a hearty attaboy from Thorm right before you’re bonked into some med-tubes in the Brain Lair below the tower. So you skip the Moonrise battle and initial Thorm fight but it picks up from there and you don’t really see much new.
I wasn’t going to lose Shadowheart just so Balthazar could betray me, so we beat up Dumpy Smurf and approached the shackled Aylin. Funny thing: I selected all of the “Shut up and let Shadowheart handle this” options since this was her moment and she… threw the spear away! That DC 30 Persuasion check last game was for nothing! Maybe that’s tied to previous choices and her relationship with you, I dunno. So we tried again and I “encouraged” her to take the career promotion. RIP Dame Aylin. Shadowheart was rewarded with a suit of Very Rare Dark Justiciar medium armor that she doesn’t need because she respec’d to a heavy armor subdomain six levels ago and the Shar Spear that she doesn’t want because she’s set up with the Blood of Lanathar mace and gear around Reverbance as she Spirit Guardians her way into crowds. So she handed the sacred spear off to Minthara, who talks shit about Shar all the time, and I took the holy armor for my Lolth spore druid. Thanks, Dark Lady!
All this mediocre loot came at a cost though. Soon after we departed, Shadowheart informed me that judiciating darkly is a full-time gig and Shar Human Resources says we have to break up. There was an option to limp along and forestall the inevitable but we made the choice to call it there and promise to be best friends forever. I wanted to see where Minthara went anyway though she stubbornly remains at Neutral (we rolled in the hay during the Grove Murder afterparty and she said she dared dream that I’d save her in Moonrise but I guess that only makes me sorta-okay in her book). Shadowheart is tasked with purging the Baldur’s Gate temple and instituting herself as Dark Pope so we’ll see where that goes.
Right now, I’m fighting through Moonrise since it turns out that they took “Killed Thorm’s source of immortality” the wrong way. Disciple Z’rell told me that I done fucked up (to which Minthara said no, YOU done fucked up) and the bugbear Quartermaster had a nice bark about seeing if I lived up to the legend but, other than that, it’s just been the usual fight up Moonrise.
Beyond that, I don’t know how many significant branching paths are left for Act 3 to be actually evil versus being a jerk. I figure there might be something of interest in the House of Loss and later if I try to use the stones to dominate the brain into me being the Absolute but most of Act 3 is pretty straight forward in its goals.
I only just learned was Send to Wares means and I feel stupid for not using it for all the weapons I collect and intend to sell.
It a related question: I have been collecting but never selling all the Silver I find because I am guessing down the line there will be a quest where I can melt it all down to make a weapon to fight a werewolf or Vampire (I know for sure I will be meeting at least one Vampire sooner or later). Can someone tell me in a spoiler box if I am over thinking this and should just sell all this junk? Is there any thing that you would normally consider junk to sell (jewels non magic rings, necklaces etc., not ones that are clearly marked as quest items) that I would regret just getting rid of because there will be some guy who wants me to give him 500 floppy hats for his Vorpal sword? Thanks.
I never found a use for any ingots or jewelry. Damon can make you stuff from the adamantine (?) you find in the grymforge and that’s it.
Damon can also make things from the gold foil masks you find and from Infernal Iron (which you’ll also need a few pieces of for Karlach’s personal quest).
I can’t think of any other “wares” style loot that’s converted into gear.
Thanks for the evil path details.
My current solo playthrough with no companions is great fun. (Annoyingly, Halsin shows up in camp without an invitation. And Volo shows up after I explicitly told him to go away.) For my next playthrough, I’m thinking of going duo with exactly one companion. Probably as a ranger with Halsin, or as a wizard with Minthara.
It says something about the game’s quality (and my personality) that the companions trigger my introversion.
I’m still amazed at how much in in Act 1. I’m not surprised I missed it because my first play through with quests that seem to have a time component is to rush rush rush! Knowing that I don’t have to makes it more interesting.
Act 1 spoilers
I found the hag and loved that side quest. I loved the animation on the hag. I loved her lair. That whole thing was amazing writing and gameplay. I chickened out on seeing if my paladin would lose his abilities for making the deal with the hag. OMG, for the trip down, Feather Fall and jump enhancing potions were amazing! Just leap past all of the traps!
I went a different route to Waukeen’s Rest so found the caravan survivors first. It was a MUCH harder fight being with them than attacking the gnolls coming from Waukeen’s Rest such that they both died.
This character not thinking anything of it, took the caravan stuff. Later, at Waukeen’s rest, I jumped to the lookout by the trapdoor, so he doesn’t set off the explosion. (I’m jumping a LOT in this playthrough.) I go into the secret area with the Zhentarim. Since I’m honest and say I opened the caravan’s goods, they attack me. I hoped to learn more about what the Zhentarim are doing here, who the shipment was for, or anything else extra, but didn’t.
One thing I do miss is the game allowing me to pick who talks to someone or to allow the best option to automatically take the lead. My current game, my paladin has an 8 INT, so I’m amazed whenever she makes any Arcana checks. When that comes up in talking to someone, it would be nice if Wyll got the roll instead. Or am I missing that if it doesn’t go well with my main, I can start it over with an NPC?
I did finish Act 1 with my paladin and going into the camp and hearing the NPCs that I haven’t picked is fun. Obviously lots of options and dialog there.
I completely understand that! I want to listen to them talk and not skip spoken dialog but it’s a lot at times!
Thanks for the discussion!
While I am not 100% sure it works this way, I can say the few times I had one of my party members approach someone I already talked to, I get the same cinematic as if I am talking to them for the first time. For example (vague to avoid spoilers), I had Gale talk to someone because he had a Detect Thoughts spell and I thought it would help and I got the entire intro to the scene I had previously seen with my actual character (FWIW the Detect Thoughts didn’t add any options in that case).
Yeah, this seems like it ought to be possible: