# Bali bomber thanks anti-war protesters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073 "2003-08-27T21:39:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/61 "2003-08-27T23:47:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gyrate \* > \*\*I haven’t actively protested against homosexual rape or goat felching or running nuns over with a combine harvester either. By golly, I must be supporting people who do that sort of thing! Fire up the tractor, Buford! \*\* No, you, **Tars Tarkas** , and probably others, are missing the point. It isn’t the fact that you protested against the war that gives moral support to the terrorists. Most people know that the other part was implied, that you are also against terrorism. Why bother saying it? Because these little jihadists don’t get the implied message. All they see is shitloads of Westerners, rallying in the streets, _for the same cause that they support_. They see effigies of GW being burned. They see American flags being burned. They see ‘No War for Oil’ and ‘No Wars of Agression’. But they don’t see ‘P.S. Terrorists suck.’ Like I said, I know it was implied. It is assumed among civilized people that terrorism sucks. The sort of people that commit acts of terrorism don’t fall under my definition of ‘civilized’. Since they see what they are doing as just and right, they figure, “Hey, so do these people!”. Unintended consiquences, baby. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/62 "2003-08-27T23:49:00Z")
**Weirddave** - Your sole support for the assertion is in the words of an accused criminal who has an agenda? Nope, doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/63 "2003-08-27T23:52:44Z")
so, **Brutus** you think that if there weren’t any protests of Bush, then the attacks would stop? that had there not been a protest, the guy quoted in the OP would have said to himself, “ya know, I really hate that Bush guy and those Americans, but hell, I’m probably alone about this, if only, if only there was some sign that others felt the same way I do, then, well, then I’d take action! But wait! there in the distance! a newstory about a protest!!! and they’re chanting things! and waving signs that I can’t read! Oh wow! they like me! they really really like me, let me go now post haste and blow something up” yep, plausible, alright. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/64 "2003-08-27T23:53:12Z")
I don’t understand what the fuck the argument is. I would think they would be even further emboldened if we were completely united against wiping their asses off the face of the planet. Probably makes their fucked up holy war even more worth fighting to them. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/65 "2003-08-27T23:55:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*You should be aware how “Bring 'em on!!!” can be perceived in other parts of the world. \*\* (Giraffe posted similar) Gee, now why is that a suprise? Rather than dealing with what I said, y’all have taken another opportunity to bash Bush. And BTW, Giraffe, we are a lot closer to #1 than you prolly want to admit, but Bush is such a ham handed “diplomat” that he’s blowing this chance too. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/66 "2003-08-27T23:56:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*No, you, **Tars Tarkas** , and probably others, are missing the point. > > It isn’t the fact that you protested against the war that gives moral support to the terrorists. Most people know that the other part was implied, that you are also against terrorism. Why bother saying it? > > Because these little jihadists don’t get the implied message. All they see is shitloads of Westerners, rallying in the streets, _for the same cause that they support_. They see effigies of GW being burned. They see American flags being burned. They see ‘No War for Oil’ and ‘No Wars of Agression’. > > But they don’t see ‘P.S. Terrorists suck.’ > > Like I said, I know it was implied. It is assumed among civilized people that terrorism sucks. The sort of people that commit acts of terrorism don’t fall under my definition of ‘civilized’. Since they see what they are doing as just and right, they figure, “Hey, so do these people!”. > > Unintended consiquences, baby. \*\* Well they’re just fucking idiots and that’s the crux of it. Send them over some hooked on phonics listening comprehension books, because we ain’t changing a damn thing for some illiterate cave dwelling sub humans. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/67 "2003-08-27T23:59:41Z")
**Weirddave** –please, why do conservatives suddenly care what foreigners think ONLY when it is what the evil foreigners think. Maybe many Iraqis saw the protests and think “Hey, many Americans don’t want me dead, so they can’t all be bad. I bet they just have a jerk in charge like we do. So i WON’T kill Americans.” Or should we ignore unintended consequences that undermine your position? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/68 "2003-08-28T00:01:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > Should the protestors refrain from their protests because some one might make such a claim? Should the protestors feel somehow _responsible_ for the insane actions of someone else half a world away? I think protestors should be aware of what this terrorist said. I think they should consider the possible unintended consequences of their words and actions. > [@](#): > > I demand proof that the protestors encouraged this carnage. Currently the only thing you’ve demonstrated is that some criminally inclined asshole a half world away said ‘thanks for supporting our cause’. Sure, Sawad is a criminally inclined asshole. But he’s the criminally inclined asshole who helped build the bomb, so the impact on him is key. As a quibble, he wasn’t half a world away, since he was thanking the Australian protestors. > [@](#): > > This does not constitute proof that the demonstrators did any such thing, or even knew that said fruitcake was aware of them. As I said in the OP, I’m sure the protestors had no intention of encouraging terrorism. However, they may have inadvertantly done so, anyhow. > [@](#): > > **John Mace** > What do you suggest people who are against the war do? It’s a fact that this terrorist said he was encouraged by the protests. I think it’s a reasonable deduction to take him at his word. There are two policy questions, which are tougher. 1. What should protestors do? 2. What should the rest of us do? I’ll leave the protestors to answer #1. But, denial isn’t a satisfactory answer IMHO, nor is ad hominem attacks at those who point out the problem. My answer to #2 is that we absolutely cannot take away their freedom of speech. They have the right to protest. OTOH we don’t have to respect people whose actions we think encourage terrorist attacks. E.g., media could give them less coverage and/or more critical coverage Maybe non-PC speech is an analogy. People have the legal right to use non-PC terms, but we don’t have to like it when they do. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/69 "2003-08-28T00:05:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\* It isn’t the fact that you protested against the war that gives moral support to the terrorists. Most people know that the other part was implied, that you are also against terrorism. Why bother saying it? > > Because these little jihadists don’t get the implied message \*\* Maybe they would if idiots like you weren’t on TV telling them the protestors hate America. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/70 "2003-08-28T00:07:14Z")
**WeirdDave** that’s not accurate at all. The OP suggests and you apparently agree that protestors voicing their disapproval of the war etc provide encouragement to the terrorists, therefore abetting them. Bush’s words can be interpreted as an invitation to attack at will, and certainly at least are threatening in tone. which do you suppose is **more** likely to stir up a person to attack? A. Some one saying “I think the war is wrong” or B. A **leader** of the nation inviting attacks, promising retaliation? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/71 "2003-08-28T00:10:23Z")
**december** , can you see that it doesn’t matter what the protesters did or didn’t do? The terrorist is a terrorist. The main thing I as an American can do to encourage a terrorist is simply being an American. My protests do not weigh in his mind one iota except as an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/72 "2003-08-28T00:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\ ***Weirddave** - Your sole support for the assertion is in the words of an accused criminal who has an agenda? Nope, doesn’t work. \*\* Oh, that’s bullshit, wring, and you know it. When a criminal says that she killed her kids because God wanted her to, or he shot the president to impress Jodie Foster or he blew up the Murrow building to fight a government trying to take away his freedoms we shrug and talk about how deluded they are, but when someone says that they were encouraged by anti-war protestors, well, we have to ignore that because it threatens one of your sacred cows? Sorry, that kind of selective thinking is what dosen’t work, Why don’t you try for a minute to be objective instead of continuing to grind your axes to the exclusion of common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/73 "2003-08-28T00:17:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*…My answer to #2 is that we absolutely cannot take away their freedom of speech. They have the right to protest. OTOH we don’t have to respect people whose actions we think encourage terrorist attacks. E.g., media could give them less coverage and/or more critical coverage > \*\* Damn, that is really big of you. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/74 "2003-08-28T00:21:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\ ***Weirddave** –please, why do conservatives suddenly care what foreigners think ONLY when it is what the evil foreigners think. Maybe many Iraqis saw the protests and think “Hey, many Americans don’t want me dead, so they can’t all be bad. I bet they just have a jerk in charge like we do. So i WON’T kill Americans.” > Or should we ignore unintended consequences that undermine your position? \*\* Great fucking point. **December** at least be aware that it cuts both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/75 "2003-08-28T00:23:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > **Gee, now why is that a suprise? Rather than dealing with what I said, y’all have taken another opportunity to bash Bush.** My answer _was_ dealing with what you said. The point is that by discussing cause and effect, you’re also inherently discussing blame. And to blame the people who thought Bush’s war was a mistake and tried to stop it for the actions of terrorists is ludicrous, compared with blaming the war itself for having incredibly predictable results. However, to address your points directly: I think you are absolutely incorrect in your opinion of how people in the Middle East, including terrorists, interpreted the protests. I think your viewpoint is wrong, and assumes that people “over there” are ignorant savages who can’t understand the concepts of democracy and protest. I think you are well-intentioned in your viewpoint, but completely off base. \*\* > [@](#): > > And BTW, Giraffe, we are a lot closer to #1 than you prolly want to admit, but Bush is such a ham handed “diplomat” that he’s blowing this chance too. \*\* See, it’s comments like this that drive me crazy. Trained attack conservatives like **december** and **brutus** can’t seem to wrap their mind around the fact that, to most Americans, having your party win is not the absolute most important thing in the whole world. I would absolutely love it if I was 100% wrong, and Iraq became a stable democracy and terrorism disappeared as a result and no more Americans were killed. But because I think I’m not wrong, I do what I can to try to fight a course of action that I think is going to hurt our country for decades to come. And the evidence is not pointing to the success of a stable democracy in Iraq or Afghanistan, or decreased terrorism, or strong allies in fighting terrorism, or much of anything good, really. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/76 "2003-08-28T00:25:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*When a criminal says that she killed her kids because God wanted her to, or he shot the president to impress Jodie Foster or he blew up the Murrow building to fight a government trying to take away his freedoms we shrug and talk about how deluded they are, but when someone says that they were encouraged by anti-war protestors, well, we have to ignore that because it threatens one of your sacred cows? \*\* But Dave, no one blames God, Jodi Foster and the Governement for those attrocities, so why heap derision on protesters? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/77 "2003-08-28T00:28:07Z")
thanks, **Jack** for pointing out the obvious to **Weirddave**. No one, at all, suggested to Jodi FOster that because a lunatic claimed she wanted him to shoot the Pres, that she should act differently. which is what you and your friends are claiming. sacred cows, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/78 "2003-08-28T00:33:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jack Batty \* > \*\*But Dave, no one blames God, Jodi Foster and the Governement for those attrocities, so why heap derision on protesters? \*\* The point, Jack, is that to Susan Smith, or John Hinkley or Tim McVeigh, these entities _were_ the reason for their actions. I am not saying that the protestors _cause_ terrorism, far from it. What I am saying is that the existance of the protestors is, from the POV of the terrorists, and encouraging sign. People who want to take to the street to protest the war are free to do so, I just think they should do so realizing how it’s going to be viewed by some people. The John Birch Society is going to see them as cowards, pacifists as heros and _some terrorists are going to see the protests as demonstrations of support for their position and perhaps for their actions._ That’s it. It’s not a concern that trumps the First Ammendment, not at all, but it’s foolish to pretend that it isn’t there. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/79 "2003-08-28T00:33:29Z")
december, did the terrorist actually say that, or was it half Bill and half Hillary? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/80 "2003-08-28T00:34:37Z")
Was the Bali bombing before or after the anti-war protests? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073.md?page=5)