# Bali bomber thanks anti-war protesters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073 "2003-08-27T21:39:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/101 "2003-08-28T02:39:41Z")
WEIRDDAVE – > [@](#): > > The goal of a terrorist group is to make the actions of a government that they are not powerful enough to take on directly change it’s policy by making the cost of that policy too high for the population of the country in question to bear, forcing the civilian population to make the government change it’s policy. The more people protest, the closer it seems that they are to that goal, thus the more they are encouraged to keep the pressure on. This is simple, basic, International relations 101 stuff, guys and gals. One more time, with feeling: _People are not responsible for how their peaceful actions SEEM to terrorists!_ If I am acting lawfully and peacefully and civilly, and some individual wholly unrelated to me or my cause takes my actions as motivation to do something violent, that is _not my problem_. And I sure as HELL didn’t cause his actions. They are not the “consequence” of my action; they are the consequence of his own fully volitional, independent actions. > [@](#): > > If support for the war in Iraq is, say, 70% today and al-Quada bombs a UN building and then notices that support for the war two weeks later is only 60%, you’d have to be a fool or an idiot to think that they wouldn’t be encouraged to bomb more places by this, thinking that they could further erode support for the war by doing so. That is not a _consequence_ of the protest! It is a consequence of their own volitional acts bringing about a perceived positive result, which in turn prompts them to repeat the same catalystic action to achieve the same positive result. If I hit a red button repeatedly because every time I do so it pays off with a cookie, the cookie is not _causing_ me to hit the red button; I am _choosing_ to do so because I want the cookies. Besides which, you’ve mixed up cause and effect. In your examples, the _cause_ is the act of terror; the hoped-for _result_ is greater protest. In the ridiculous position advocated in the OP it’s the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/102 "2003-08-28T02:49:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*1. What should protestors do? > … > > I’ll leave the protestors to answer #1.\*\* Once again, **december** steps right up to the plate, and deals with the tough question that he thinks his OP has raised. So what was the point of the OP, again? By the way, I completely disagree with those who say that **december** , like **Collounsbury** , is a condescending asshole. **Coll** is actually intelligent enough to be capable of condescension, whereas **december** only _thinks_ he’s intelligent enough to be condescending. In that respect, he and **Brutus** , our resident troglodyte bully-boy, are very similar. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/103 "2003-08-28T02:49:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*Which by _decembrist_ logic \*\* Don’t drag the Decembrists into this. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/104 "2003-08-28T02:55:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*Really, at the end of the day, I’m not sure what DECEMBER and Co. (not to tar the rest of you, etc.) expect people to do. If they don’t speak up, they are open to charges of complicity in policies they do not support and in fact think are deeply wrong. \*\* I think you miss the point, **Jodi** , that this is _exactly_ what they expect. While **december** et al. would ideally like everyone to think exactly the way they do, they are willing to accept a situation where everyone who thinks differently simply declines to express an opinion. It’s Groupthink at its best. ---
**Author:** ![Publius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@Publius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Publius)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/105 "2003-08-28T02:58:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*Don’t drag the Decembrists into this. \*\* But **december** ’s name could clearly be construed as an endorsement of the December 1825 plotters. By speaking out against tsarist Russia like this, **december** has clearly supported the Soviet Union. I’m sure he had no such intention, but good intentions won’t bring millions of victims back to life. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/106 "2003-08-28T03:04:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I think you miss the point, Jodi, that this is exactly what they expect. While december et al. would ideally like everyone to think exactly the way they do, they are willing to accept a situation where everyone who thinks differently simply declines to express an opinion. But . . . But . . . But that’s just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/107 "2003-08-28T03:15:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*But . . . But . . . But that’s just stupid. \*\* ``` **BINGO!** ``` That’s the point. Our friend’s contention is, to barrow a phrase, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Read\_Neck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@Read\_Neck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Read_Neck)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/108 "2003-08-28T03:19:15Z")
> [@](#): > > One more time, with feeling: People are not responsible for how their peaceful actions SEEM to terrorists! If I am acting lawfully and peacefully and civilly, and some individual wholly unrelated to me or my cause takes my actions as motivation to do something violent, that is not my problem. And I sure as HELL didn’t cause his actions. They are not the “consequence” of my action; they are the consequence of his own fully volitional, independent actions. I couldn’t have said it better. It’s all about ME and MY RIGHTS. I refuse to take any responsibility for my actions and fuck the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/109 "2003-08-28T03:30:56Z")
Oh, my, I’d forgotten about **Read\_Neck** , who also deserves an honored spot on the Honor Roll of the Dim. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/110 "2003-08-28T03:33:36Z")
> [@](#): > > I couldn’t have said it better. It’s all about ME and MY RIGHTS. I refuse to take any responsibility for my actions and fuck the consequences. Do you have a reading problem? Or merely a comprehesion problem? I am responsible for MY actions. I am not responsible for YOURS, so long as yours are intentionally done and wholly unconnected to mine. You can certainly point to me as the reason for doing as you _chose_ to do, but since you, in this hypothetical, are a craven dishonorable murdering terrorist, who gives a shit _how_ you justify your actions? What the hell is so hard about this? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/111 "2003-08-28T03:40:43Z")
Apparently CNN botched this one (no surprise there, eh december?), as they left out the rest of the statement. There must have been a problem with the translator. Luckily, TurdNetDaily had the entire statment, and so we present: > [@](#): > > I want to thank the Australian people who supported our cause when they demonstrated against the policies of George Bush. Say thank you to all of them. Their dislike for George Bush seems to be contagious, and we’re greatly concerned that it might hinder George’s re-election efforts. As he and his staff are fighting for the same ideals as we are, namely censored speech, theocracy, and the murder of those who are in the way, our recruitment efforts have born new fruit since his downturn in popularity. Our freedom-fighters will not rest until the Republicans are, once and for all, able to squelch the heathens in the manner they deserve. Thanks again to the protestors, and George, keep up the good fight! We’re happy to be “with you”. To those who claim that the protestors are in any way responsible for this, you “encouraged” Bush to killed thousands of innocents in Iraq, and we “encouraged” the death of under 200. I guess you win in the numbers game. Oh, and I’ll continue to feel free to protest and even to burn the flag if I see fit. It must be okay, since you keep shitting on it. ---
**Author:** ![Read\_Neck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@Read\_Neck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Read_Neck)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/112 "2003-08-28T04:03:09Z")
Methinks thou doth protest too loudly. shitbirds ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/113 "2003-08-28T04:12:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Read\_Neck \* > \*\*Methinks thou doth protest too loudly. shitbirds \*\* Ohhh, it’s a swing and a miss! Here, let me give you something to wipe that drool off your chin. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/114 "2003-08-28T04:18:06Z")
Ssshhh **Read\_neck** , every word you say kills a baby somewhere. It’s your right of course, but you might want to think about it. You know, is that post really worth dead babies? Not that I’m against free speech, it’s just that I’m against baby-killing. I am so torn. Just think over your next post OK? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/115 "2003-08-28T04:19:05Z")
Methinks thy evasive reply sucketh. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/116 "2003-08-28T04:26:44Z")
I’m not sure why everyone is getting down on **december**. He merely pointed out that the actions of some protestors encouraged the actions of some terrorists. Since bin Laden has noted on multiple occasions that his original beef with the west was inspired by the desecration of the Muslim Holy Lands by the stationing of U.S. troops on Saudi soil, I think that we can all agree with **december** that Georgw H. W. Bush was the one who encouraged the bombing of the African embassies, the USS Cole, and the WTC and Pentagon. I am mildly surprised to find **december** arging that it was wrong for the U.S. to station troops in Saudi Arabia, but it is his argument and I have to applaud his courage in making it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/117 "2003-08-28T04:36:03Z")
Thanks for the full cite, **DMC**. **december** , note that the terrorist claims Bush wants the same things he does and is helping the cause of recruitment. What do you, using your methods of logic, conclude that Bush is responsible for? For someone already “on very thin ice”, this OP is a deathwish. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/118 "2003-08-28T04:42:54Z")
And **tomndebb** hits a stand-up triple! The last few months’ worth of posts on these boards have given me renewed hope that the American voters will opt for regime change at home next year. The arguments of Bush’s defenders have become increasingly lame. If this is the best they can do, there’s light at the end of this frighteningly dark tunnel. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/119 "2003-08-28T04:43:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*I’m not sure why everyone is getting down on **december**. He merely pointed out that the actions of some protestors encouraged the actions of some terrorists. Since bin Laden has noted on multiple occasions that his original beef with the west was inspired by the desecration of the Muslim Holy Lands by the stationing of U.S. troops on Saudi soil, I think that we can all agree with **december** that Georgw H. W. Bush was the one who encouraged the bombing of the African embassies, the USS Cole, and the WTC and Pentagon. > > I am mildly surprised to find **december** arging that it was wrong for the U.S. to station troops in Saudi Arabia, but it is his argument and I have to applaud his courage in making it. \*\* Well, **Miller** made a very similar argument quite a while ago, and it has been studiously ignored by **december** and his brethren. Don’t hold your breath for a response. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073/120 "2003-08-28T04:46:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t hold your breath for a response. I only hold my breath when I’m _reading_ their stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-bomber-thanks-anti-war-protesters/198073.md?page=7)