# Bali Executions **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328 "2016-04-28T12:11:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/61 "2016-05-02T12:08:15Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Why? Do you hate all South East Asian countries or just Bali / Indonesia? Not sure what you were expecting. Just Bali. I love Malaysia and Singapore; haven’t been anywhere else in southeast Asia but would like to. As to why I hated Bali? I really don’t want to derail the thread but I did _not_ feel safe there, didn’t feel particularly welcome, the hawkers were constantly trying to accost me in the streets to sell me shit I didn’t want, most of the merchants seemed to be trying to rip me off or had crap quality goods, and the infrastructure was generally terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/62 "2016-05-02T12:30:40Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Lets get real. If this case did not involve[a British woman](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/28/indonesia-firing-squads-year-after-bali-nine-executions) an a Frenchie and last year did not include two Australians no one East and North of Suez or in the Antipodes would have given two fucks about any of the people you mentioned. You’re peddling logical fallacy here. There is nothing immoral or hypocritical about taking a special interest in a case when you have something in common with the defendant. To other points being made here: Imprisonment is not equivalent torture. Or it need not be. Imprisonment also need not be a complete waste of a person’s life. A prisoner can still gone a way to life some kind of meaningful life, perhaps even to the benefit of society. We can’t predict whom we might later have liked to have around for a bit. Certainly people like Gandhi, King, and Mandela knew they were breaking the law when they were jailed. Perhaps not everyone in oriqon will end up as a Mandela, but we don’t need them all to be. And dismissing other countries as “Third-world shitholes” is a pretty fucking bike and offensive thing to do. Those are all places where fellow human beings live and are doing their beat to survive and live meaningful lives. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/63 "2016-05-02T19:21:16Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > "Iran is getting ready to execute some sodomites by hanging again. > > Why is the West getting angry about this? The people to be executed presumably knew what to expect before engaging in homosexual acts in Iran. Why should we care enough to protest?" > > Drug dealing/smuggling does not warrant execution. The Indonesians haven’t figured that out yet. They are wrong, and we should help them see their mistake. Simple as that. I think this analogy fails. Where is the victim with sodomy (assuming it isn’t a rape case)? With big-time drug dealing, there is a real chance that some users will die. Even if that doesn’t happen, drug addiction leads to a fucked-up, crime ridden population. If a place isn’t a shit-hole to begin with, wide-scale drug addiction is a step in that direction. What government wouldn’t want to prevent that? As an American, I think we need to phase out the War on Drugs here and move toward a treatment model. But the drug war here has a particular and stupid history. I don’t know what conditions are like in Indonesia and am not prepared to lecture them on this. But I respect your opinion and I am not going to try to stop you from persuading the Indonesian authorities to change their policies. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/64 "2016-05-02T22:35:36Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Just Bali. I love Malaysia and Singapore; haven’t been anywhere else in southeast Asia but would like to. > > As to why I hated Bali? I really don’t want to derail the thread but I did _not_ feel safe there, didn’t feel particularly welcome, the hawkers were constantly trying to accost me in the streets to sell me shit I didn’t want, most of the merchants seemed to be trying to rip me off or had crap quality goods, and the infrastructure was generally terrible. We certainly had a different experience of Bali. I’ll admit the hawkers do get a bit much at times, but I’ve seen worse elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/65 "2016-05-03T08:58:48Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > We certainly had a different experience of Bali. I’ll admit the hawkers do get a bit much at times, but I’ve seen worse elsewhere. It wasn’t just the hawkers; but where have you seen worse? I want to make sure I don’t go there if possible. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/67 "2016-05-04T01:38:02Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It wasn’t just the hawkers; but where have you seen worse? I want to make sure I don’t go there if possible. Cambodia. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/68 "2016-05-04T01:47:25Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It wasn’t just the hawkers; but where have you seen worse? I want to make sure I don’t go there if possible. India. Some people love the experience of travelling in less developed countries and some people don’t. Yes stuff doesn’t work, if you are expecting it all to be smooth and efficient you’ll have a bad time. If you just go with it and accept whatever is happening and enjoy the local atmosphere it can be great. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/69 "2016-05-04T09:24:00Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > India. Some people love the experience of travelling in less developed countries and some people don’t. Yes stuff doesn’t work, if you are expecting it all to be smooth and efficient you’ll have a bad time. If you just go with it and accept whatever is happening and enjoy the local atmosphere it can be great. Interesting; India has long been on my list of places to visit. Might have to reconsider, or at least make sure any trip is very well planned. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/70 "2016-05-04T11:42:14Z")
Yeah, if you found Bali too challenging/taxing you might want to think hard before venturing to India. Just a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/71 "2016-05-04T12:27:36Z")
We spent 2 weeks with the family in Bali. Staying in a Villa in Seminyak. If memory serves correctly. Rather enjoyed the experience. Toured around a bit…Both by chaffeur and by a rented suzuki jeep. Would recommend it. We never had a hawker problem, nor did I feel unsafe at any point. Mind you…nights we hid out in the villa (young kids and all) and I guess families do tend to get a pass. Travelling alone in Vietnam I damn near went crazy with “offers” every two minutes though… ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/72 "2016-05-05T03:12:13Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Interesting; India has long been on my list of places to visit. Might have to reconsider, or at least make sure any trip is very well planned. > [@elbows](#): > > Yeah, if you found Bali too challenging/taxing you might want to think hard before venturing to India. Just a suggestion. Yeah, I’m in no hurry to visit India myself. I’d recommend Nepal instead. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/73 "2016-05-05T03:25:45Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Yeah, I’m in no hurry to visit India myself. I’d recommend Nepal instead. Seeing as we’ve derailed the thread I have to say that India is well worth a visit (if you can cope with constant hassles and transport being unreliable). Goa and Gokarna have beautiful beaches and waterways, Rajasthan has fairy tale castles and forts in the desert, the Taj Mahal is simply stunning in person, seen it twice and would go again, and Manali and Leh are amazing Himalayan destinations. Nepal, well they got problems, power is still rationed and turns off for 4 hours or so a day even in Katmandu, the roads are terrible and the airlines have terrible safety records. Sure I’d still highly recommend going there for trekking, but not for someone that found Bali to be unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/74 "2016-05-05T03:43:30Z")
Actually, I plumb forgot about the earthquake a year ago, so Nepal might not be such a good alternative at present. But certainly I found the hawkers to be less of a hassle than on Bali. I was always mystified though about the odd combination of Tiger Balm and Swiss army knives that so many of them seemed to sell. Just those two items flogged by so many hawkers. Just what is the relationship between Tiger Balm and Swiss army knives? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/75 "2016-05-05T04:15:42Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Just what is the relationship between Tiger Balm and Swiss army knives? They are both items somewhat useful to trekkers and presumably have a big markup if you get a customer who is bad at haggling. To get the topic back on track. Indonesia has a somewhat difficult relationship with Australia and the west in general and they react very badly to foreign pressure or to outside forces saying their legal system is corrupt. It quite obviously blatantly is, but drawing attention to that is actually counter productive. Soft power behind closed doors is the only way to influence them to clemency. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/76 "2016-05-05T04:29:50Z")
I’ve heard it claimed there’s so much drug use inside the prisons themselves that cleaning it up would in itself eliminate half the drug use in Indonesia. Many Indonesian addicts became addicted while in prison. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/77 "2016-05-05T05:01:04Z")
Yep, if you got money from outside you can get anything you want in an Indonesian prison. > **[Drugs, Corruption Rampant in Indonesian Prisons](https://www.voanews.com/a/drug-use-corruption-rampant-in-indonesian-prisons/1713589.html)** > > Model Vanny Rossyane's public admission of sex and drug party with prisoner boyfriend reignites debate over privileges granted to wealthy inmates Prison guards get paid $300 a month, so they find “creative” ways to supplement that. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/78 "2016-05-05T05:41:07Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > If government sanctioned executions are morally wrong it doesn’t matter which country is doing it. Does that apply to drone strikes? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/79 "2016-05-05T05:44:37Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Does that apply to drone strikes? As far as I’m personally concerned yes absolutely. They should be treated as illegal assassinations. I’d think that most people who are blanket against the death penalty in any circumstances would feel the same about drone strikes. A hellfire missile is an anti-tank weapon. Using them to kill an individual person should be a war crime. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328/80 "2016-05-06T21:04:40Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > As far as I’m personally concerned yes absolutely. They should be treated as illegal assassinations. I’d think that most people who are blanket against the death penalty in any circumstances would feel the same about drone strikes. A hellfire missile is an anti-tank weapon. Using them to kill an individual person should be a war crime. This isn’t accurate, there is no one missile called “hellfire” they are different iterations/versions and many are specifically designed for precision strikes against personnel. So no different from bullets–they are designed to kill individuals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bali-executions/753328.md?page=3)