# Ball-carriers no longer allowed to lower helmet outside tackle box **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492 "2013-03-20T21:21:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/41 "2013-03-22T03:31:41Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > This one seems innocent but it’s a series of small changes over time. In a few more years if they keep changing rules all the time eventually football will be gone or so differently changed it’s not the same game anymore. Then I will have nothing to enjoy in life. > > Yeah these guys get head injuries but they also get to make a lot of money, and they are beloved sports idols and celerbities. It’s better to live the high life and then have brain damage rather than to live a long healthy life of middle class drudgery Then start your own league. Go for it. ETA: Yeah, Doorman? How about trading the extra money for no longer be able to recognize your wife? Or your kids? Still willing to make the trade? 6 years. That’s how long you get on average. Trade that for being a drooling moron in 20 more years? ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/42 "2013-03-22T03:50:52Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > In a few more years if they keep changing rules all the time eventually football will be gone or so differently changed it’s not the same game anymore. Then I will have nothing to enjoy in life. If televised football is literally _all_ you enjoy in life, get some help.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/43 "2013-03-22T11:13:50Z")
You still have your laser discs, PSXer. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/44 "2013-03-22T12:19:09Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > ETA: Yeah, Doorman? How about trading the extra money for no longer be able to recognize your wife? Or your kids? Still willing to make the trade? 6 years. That’s how long you get on average. Trade that for being a drooling moron in 20 more years? Not to mention fun stuff leading up to it like [aggression, confusion, depression, and gait/coordination problems](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy)! And the damage starts as early as high school, so even a college-only athlete may fuck up his brain for no good reason, no NFL career, and maybe wreck his ability to achieve a decent life and retirement in his chosen career. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/45 "2013-03-22T12:32:37Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Goddammit, that thread title is _filthy_. And _HOT!_ I didn’t think so. Quite the opposite actually. I thought this was about elderly men with sagging “equipment”, ill fitting short shorts, who were going commando, and letting it all hang out. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/46 "2013-03-22T12:36:14Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Goddammit, that thread title is _filthy_. And _HOT!_ Ha! My ball carrier moved. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/47 "2013-03-22T12:53:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think it has a minor impact on the game action but could have a major impact on someone’s life. Every little hit on the head adds up, a few more yards on a play just isn’t worth it. Unless it’s fourth and goal, with 3 seconds left on the clock, and you’re trailing by five. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/48 "2013-03-22T12:59:33Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > You’re a fucking idiot. > > The game is _already_ unrecognizable compared to the original 19th century version. Player deaths were not uncommon back then. Teddy Fucking “I’m going to take this fucking Cuban hill and hunt African animals and I can take you in a knife fight any day of the week” Roosevelt thought it was too violent and dangerous. He had to get football teams together and mandate changes for safety. > > The forward pass. Roughing the kicker rules. Wearing safety gear at all. Facemask rules. Horse collar tackle rules. > > The only constant in football has been making it steadily safer for the players. Otherwise, the way the game has been played has changed constantly. Each decade brings tons of changes. > > And still, every single fucking time, you worms crawl out of the woodwork to complain about the emasculation of football. And you’re wrong every damned time. Well, the blood is already on your hands. And I have no fucking patience left for you maggots. Great post. And I think the worm/maggot OP is about twelve years old, judging by his posts. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/49 "2013-03-22T13:11:22Z")
[Sarcastaball?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlv6BrrxD_4) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/50 "2013-03-22T13:19:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Unless it’s fourth and goal, with 3 seconds left on the clock, and you’re trailing by five. Except that the new rules will still allow your fullback to lower his head and charge through the defensive line, as long as he’s inside the tackle box. **PSXer** , you’re retarded. It’s as stupid as saying that safety rules for cars (seat belts, headrests, crumple zones, etc) take all the fun out of driving and that everyone who drives knows what they’re in for. It. Fucking. Saves. Lives. Seventeen weeks of entertainment for you each year – and I’ll bet you don’t even watch every game – is nothing compared to people living with brain damage every day for decades. You are monumentally stupid if you can’t understand that. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/51 "2013-03-22T14:13:34Z")
The OP has a thing about football and preserving the violence of the game regardless of the impact on the health of players. > **[Roger Goodell continues to do everything in his power to ruin football (re:...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=674686)** > > http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/\_/id/8720551/roger-goodell-floats-idea-end-kickoffs-report-says Goodell and McKay discussed an idea brought up by Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Greg Schiano in which a team, instead of kicking off, would get the ball at its... > **[Why is it the NFL's responsibility to tell players about the effects of...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=666999)** > > my friend wants to know there are other jobs where you can have head injuries In other words, he’s an idiot. This is just further proof. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/52 "2013-03-22T16:16:21Z")
Folks arguing against this rule are idiots. It should be obvious to anyone that you should not be able to use your helmeted head as a bulldozer. The only real concern I have is how well it will be called, but I am sure it will be worked out. Note, it is not a penalty to just lower your head, it is a penalty if you use your helmet as a projectile. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/53 "2013-03-22T17:44:28Z")
There are already tons of rules about the way players can approach and contact each other. This is just one more minor change that nobody will even notice a year from now. What is missing from modern football is the kaiser helmet. These days you aren’t even allowed a shiv on the field. Ah for the good ol’ days when men were men. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/54 "2013-03-22T17:49:35Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > ETA: Yeah, Doorman? How about trading the extra money for no longer be able to recognize your wife? Or your kids? Still willing to make the trade? 6 years. That’s how long you get on average. Trade that for being a drooling moron in 20 more years? There’s no evidence (yet) that CTE is an expected outcome in all cases. There are hundreds of current and former football players that do not suffer from such conditions. But yes, I’m still willing to make the trade. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/55 "2013-03-22T17:57:22Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The OP has a thing about football and preserving the violence of the game regardless of the impact on the health of players. > > [Roger Goodell continues to do everything in his power to ruin football (re: kickoffs) - The Game Room - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=674686) > [Why is it the NFL's responsibility to tell players about the effects of concussions - The Game Room - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=666999) > > In other words, he’s an idiot. This is just further proof. IIRC, he also admitted a while back that many of his earlier threads were at least partially trolling, but promised never ever to do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/56 "2013-03-22T18:01:05Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > There’s no evidence (yet) that CTE is an expected outcome in all cases. There are hundreds of current and former football players that do not suffer from such conditions. But yes, I’m still willing to make the trade. It doesn’t have to be “an expected outcome in all cases” to be worth worrying about. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/57 "2013-03-22T18:03:11Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > It doesn’t have to be the expected outcome in all cases to be worth worrying about. I’m not arguing that it’s not worth worrying about. I’m saying that the OP has a not-uncommon point of view, and it’s not so irrational that he deserves to be torn apart for it. I don’t necessarily happen to agree with it, but I do understand where he’s coming from though his presentation sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/58 "2013-03-22T18:16:05Z")
It’s possible, I guess, to take a rational position against this rule. The OP isn’t doing that. He’s getting torn apart because he’s an asshole, not because he’s taken an unpopular position. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/59 "2013-03-22T18:24:42Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > To be fair to that point of view, I’ve been injured with certain long-term consequences for much, much less than football players make. I’d trade a little more immobility for the league minimum over the average career length. > > These guys make a choice and are handsomely remunerated for their choice. There are millions that get just as wrecked and don’t have a tenth of the players’ financial resources (if they’re smart enough to mind their money, which is a separate issue). It’s easy to see why they don’t draw too much sympathy, any more than you’d shed a tear for a smoker with lung cancer or a drunk with cirrhosis. Choices have consequences. I keep hearing this argument and it’s bullshit. It’s only recently that we’ve learned the consequences of head injuries. As in, the last ten years. Prior to that, “you just got your bell rung, get back out there.” Hell, if you’ll recall, it took Sidney Crosby getting injured for the NHL to start taking this stuff seriously. It’s also only in the last twenty years or so that athletes started making millions. Back when a lot of these guys were playing, they weren’t making that much money. Some of them were taking second jobs in the off-season. (Bradshaw, Webster, etc) I’ve mentioned before that Ken Dryden wrote several articles on concussions in sports and the consequences. It’s fucking scary. When you have Terry fucking Bradshaw saying he’d never let his son play football, I think you need to look into a way to make things a little less risky. Besides, in the past, football and hockey were a LOT more dangerous and violent. But people still watch them. They complained that helmets would make people “pussies”. Jacques Plante was mocked for being the first goalie to wear a mask. Nowadays, they’d call you a fucking moron for not wearing one. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492/60 "2013-03-22T18:31:17Z")
The fact that there might be one person who is rationally willing to take that trade is the very reason that you need a governing body to make rules in the first place. It’s the same as doping. So long as there is anyone who is willing to dope in order enhance performance, then doping becomes much like an obligation for everyone else. The very fact that the public is willing to dangle millions of dollars in front of the faces of thousands of high school students aggravatesthe rational decision making problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ball-carriers-no-longer-allowed-to-lower-helmet-outside-tackle-box/653492.md?page=4)