# Balrog vs Smaug - Who wins? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376 "2017-05-11T18:03:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/61 "2017-05-13T00:37:54Z")
When oliphaunts battle, it is the grass that suffers. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/62 "2017-05-13T02:35:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [Moderating] > > I was initially reluctant to mar such a sublime pun as the one in the title of this thread, even if it was accidental. But it hasn’t provided nearly as much fodder for jokes as I’d expected, and the OP did request that we change it, so I’ve fixed the title. Tried to wing it, did you? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/63 "2017-05-13T02:40:54Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > From what I’ve gathered, Smaug’s scale was broken off by a black arrow in the first attack on Dale, from the movie. I don’t believe _The Hobbit_ ever actually explained it. First of all, please don’t EVER reference the movies for explanations of anything Tolkien. Especially not the Hobbit movies; they were abominations with lots of things made up in them. If you read _The Hobbit_ carefully, you see that Smaug’s bare patch isn’t some sort of lost scale. It’s not completely clear, but parsing what Smaug says (and what Bilbo thinks to himself upon seeing it), Smaug has heavy iron scales over large swathes of his body. But his belly (like most reptiles) is not so tough. To preclude that being used against him, Smaug has used his weight while lying on a pile of gems and gold and such to encrust his belly with a dazzling coat of armor. But he probably just can’t see the bit behind the left front leg, the “hollow of the breast” where there are no gems. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/64 "2017-05-13T02:42:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m pretty sure that Smaug’s belly has tough armored scales, too. Just not _quite_ tough enough to stop an arrow. I think that Smaug is much like modern reptiles like lizards: the belly has “scales”, but they aren’t tough at all. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/65 "2017-05-13T07:44:21Z")
It’s really not very clear- I have not seen the third Hobbit [del]abomination[/del] movie, but my interpretation from the book, as someone who kept reptiles for years, was always of an old damaged bit on Smaug, as there isn’t a ‘hollow’ on a lizard belly. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/66 "2017-05-13T14:04:16Z")
IIRC Smaug was the last of the dragons, and he wasn’t anything like the most powerful of his breed. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/67 "2017-05-13T14:18:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [Moderating] > > I was initially reluctant to mar such a sublime pun as the one in the title of this thread, even if it was accidental. But it hasn’t provided nearly as much fodder for jokes as I’d expected, and the OP did request that we change it, so I’ve fixed the title. Damn. Can’t say you did the wrong thing, but the OP’s change request was misguided. :smack: The thread title was the best I’d seen in months. Maybe years. Funny, attention-grabbing, and instantly understandable. Sublime, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/68 "2017-05-13T17:31:08Z")
I am not sure that pet lizards are an appropriate model for ME dragons. Lizards are cold-blooded, which is an unimaginable physiology for a massive, fire-breathing, flying creature. Dragons merely bear something of a resemblance to reptiles, but surely their overall taxonomy must be different. That Smaug had a hollow between his forelimb and breast could easily be understood. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/69 "2017-05-13T22:13:14Z")
AFAIK, the balrog was magical and Smaug just a garden variety dragon. I’ll go with the balrog. Of course, a dragon can just fly away and I don’t think the balrog can do much then. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/70 "2017-05-14T03:51:22Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Of the four named Children of Iluvatar that are known to have slain a dragon, three were mortal men and one was half-elven. > > Of the three named Children of Iluvatar that are known to have slain a Balrog, two were High Elves and the other was Gandalf the Grey. None of these “survived” the encounter, either. > > I suggest Balrog \> Dragon, with the evidence we have. Well said, and I agree. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > [Glamdring](https://youtu.be/BS3ybMWQ_s8), the foe hammer. Here’s how Gandalf got his sword in the recent _Hobbit_ movies (not the worst scene, by far): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqwup9nNVw0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqwup9nNVw0) And here’s more on the blade: [Glamdring | The One Wiki to Rule Them All | Fandom](http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Glamdring) > [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > Damn. Can’t say you did the wrong thing, but the OP’s change request was misguided. :smack: The thread title was the best I’d seen in months. Maybe years. Funny, attention-grabbing, and instantly understandable. > > Sublime, indeed. What was it? I came too late to the thread to see the original title. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/71 "2017-05-14T04:01:18Z")
Balrog vs Smaug - Who win **g** s? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/72 "2017-05-14T04:01:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > … > What was it? I came too late to the thread to see the original title. Originally it was “Balrog vs Smaug - Who wings?” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/73 "2017-05-14T04:07:11Z")
The original title was “Balrog vs Smaug - Who wings?” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/74 "2017-05-15T04:23:00Z")
Thanks, all. Seems like a minor flap. D&R ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/75 "2017-05-15T04:43:50Z")
Why is everyone getting so inflamed about the thread title? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/76 "2017-05-15T07:06:04Z")
This just keeps dragon on and on and… . ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/77 "2017-05-15T10:41:02Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Smaug just a garden variety dragon. i.e. a _magical_ flying lizard. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/78 "2017-05-15T11:14:30Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > This just keeps dragon on and on and… . Wyvern did you have to go there? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/79 "2017-05-15T17:21:43Z")
> [@simster](#): > > **Wyvern** did you have to go there? “Ernest Saves Hobbiton”? KnowWhatIMean? ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/balrog-vs-smaug-who-wins/786376/80 "2017-05-15T17:58:45Z")
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