# Bambi versus Godzilla: the illusions of Sanders-supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 4, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205 "2016-04-04T22:59:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/181 "2016-04-08T14:17:29Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > What’s surprised me about this “I don’t believe that she is qualified” scorched-earth statement from Sanders is that he lashed out in this way on very little provocation: one April 4 \*New York Times \*headline about his campaign titled “Early Missteps,” and one April 6 \*Washington Post \*headline that incorrectly implied Clinton had called Sanders “unqualified”. > > He seems to be very thin-skinned. How will he deal with what the GOP will throw at him? And now, former far-left darling (former because he doesn’t really buy all that much what Sanders is selling), Paul Krugman tees off on Sanders for these statements: [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/opinion/sanders-over-the-edge.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/opinion/sanders-over-the-edge.html) > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, in the past few days the answer has become all too clear: Mr. Sanders is starting to sound like his worst followers. Bernie is becoming a Bernie Bro. > [@](#): > > The Sanders campaign has brought out a lot of idealism and energy that the progressive movement needs. It has also, however, brought out a streak of petulant self-righteousness among some supporters. Has it brought out that streak in the candidate, too? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/182 "2016-04-08T14:38:56Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > And now, former far-left darling (former because he doesn’t really buy all that much what Sanders is selling), Paul Krugman tees off on Sanders for these statements: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/opinion/sanders-over-the-edge.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/opinion/sanders-over-the-edge.html) Only in a right-winger’s wet-dream was Krugman ever associated with the “far left”, but that article is an excellent read. Still, Sanders’ values are worth espousing even if his policy proposals are wrong. Sanders’ campaign started out as a mission to inspire the young and leftish so they’d eventually vote for Hillary. Like Trump’s campaign, which was just a personal publicity stunt, Sanders’ achieved much more success than expected. Let’s hope that by year’s-end we look on Sanders’ campaign as a positive development rather than a Democratic fracture that led to GOP victory. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/183 "2016-04-08T14:43:45Z")
> [@camille](#): > > … I was surprised to read from your cite that Clinton is also on the woo scale for embracing the pseudoscience of [“functional medicine”](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/04/21/bill-and-hillary-clinton-embrace-functional-medicine/). Maybe that explains why the Clinton campaign didn’t say anything directly about The Freeman article when it was in the news last July. As a political attack I don’t see it getting too much traction because none of them are woo free; they’d more likely go after his fiction writing if anything. > > As I’ve said, I am biased, not just by being a Sanders supporter, but from personal experience. Bernie could easily be my Grandfather (just add a French inflection to the Brooklyn accent), and they both came from similar backgrounds. Like Sanders, my Grandfather was a socialist … The second part first. I never met my grandfathers but the one who did not abandon his family running away from gambling debts was the generation before Sanders, with the Yiddish accent, Workmen’s Circle socialist … I understand the tradition. And like **jsgoddess** it gives more pause than affection. The type is in regards to science the same as on the Right: the “correct” conclusion comes first; if the conclusion is “correct” the science is good, if not, the science is bad. As to the alleged Clintonian embrace of woo … that article takes a few _huge_ leaps. They take personal advice from someone who advised them to eat a bit of fish and lean meats and who sells the latests trendy diet fads. Hillary Clinton, even according to the article, clearly disagrees with some of what he says. That person personally also embraces a fairly meaningless “wellness” marketing entity called “functional medicine.” Therefore Hillary Clinton embraces all or even ANY aspects of what gets marketed as “functional medicine”? Because she knows this person and enjoys taking some personal fairly benign if trendy nutritional guidance from him, she is likely to appoint him to her health care policy team? No, it does not follow. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/184 "2016-04-08T14:49:09Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > … Sanders’ campaign started out as a mission to inspire the young and leftish so they’d eventually vote for Hillary. … You really believe that? I think you are the only one. Certainly his current actions are extremely inconsistent with that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/185 "2016-04-08T15:10:03Z")
I continue to think he was recruited by the DNC to be her sparring partner, and to bracket her from the left, for the primaries only, after they finally gave up on convincing Elizabeth Warren to do it. If Sanders had the personal ambitions, or even the commitment to acting on his stated beliefs, now ascribed to him, why would it take until he was 74 to show them? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/186 "2016-04-08T15:28:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I continue to think he was recruited by the DNC to be her sparring partner, and to bracket her from the left, for the primaries only, after they finally gave up on convincing Elizabeth Warren to do it. The DNC is capable of planning? Of long-term thinking? Of subterfuge? You’ve got to be kidding me. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/187 "2016-04-08T15:30:18Z")
> [@Sputnikkk](#): > > Bambi vs Godzilla, and Sanders is Bambi? > If people could vote on Bambi or Godzilla and change it so Bambi would win, I think they would. Because everyone roots for an underdog, and I think that is why Bernie could do better than Clinton if he won the nomination. Also, Bernie has charisma, Hillary has no charisma, her voice is like nails on a chalk board. Trump vs Sanders would be like watching a bully beat up a skinny old man, you would root for the skinny old man. Trump vs Hillary, would be like watching two bullies beating up on each other and you wouldn’t want either bully to win. So, I do think Sanders would do just as well as Hillary if running against Trump or Cruz. Because voting for the underdog will ensure that we get the best President available. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/188 "2016-04-08T15:38:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The DNC is capable of planning? Of long-term thinking? Of subterfuge? Some individuals, and it only really takes one, yes. This isn’t a big plan or all that long-range or even subterfugeous (real word or not, I’m using it). It’s just playing the game, and not on a deep level, either. Get a bunch of activists with disparate agendas into a room and they will not emerge with a coherent and effective strategy, you’re right, but that isn’t necessarily what happened. So what’s \*your \*explanation for where Sanders has been all these years, and why he waited until Warren was out to do anything? Remember that his candidacy came first, and the Bernie Bro movement followed it. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/189 "2016-04-08T16:44:16Z")
You can’t credibly run for president from the House, and to run the year Obama did was his first year in the Senate, also pretty shaky. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/190 "2016-04-08T17:40:29Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The DNC is capable of planning? Of long-term thinking? Of subterfuge? > > You’ve got to be kidding me. Good point. Look at how their neglect of state and local races has fucked the Democratic Party up big time. The Republicans worked hard at getting judges and state government officials into positions of power while the DNC slept. Now the White House is the slender reed upon which all hopes of Democrats retaining power at the federal level depend, as the state government Republicans have gerrymandered the living hell out of all the electoral maps. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/191 "2016-04-08T17:44:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Some individuals, and it only really takes one, yes. This isn’t a big plan or all that long-range or even subterfugeous (real word or not, I’m using it). It’s just playing the game, and not on a deep level, either. Get a bunch of activists with disparate agendas into a room and they will not emerge with a coherent and effective strategy, you’re right, but that isn’t necessarily what happened. > > So what’s \*your \*explanation for where Sanders has been all these years, and why he waited until Warren was out to do anything? Remember that his candidacy came first, and the Bernie Bro movement followed it. I think it was because he was aware of all the polling data which suggests that the majority of Americans, much less the Democrats, support policies that are well to the left of those supported by the DNC centrists. Obviously, there was room for someone on the left to campaign against Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/192 "2016-04-08T17:49:43Z")
The issues about oil and gas and placenta eating and defending Nicaragua’s left leaning government are all Washington bobble head talking points, pure gotcha stuff that does not matter. Progressives will stay on focus on the big issues, which are getting money out of politics, preserving the American middle class by fighting wealth inequality, and breaking up the big banks and regulating them so they don’t screw up again, as they surely will under Hillary. Have fun with it, guys, it won’t change the big issues. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/193 "2016-04-08T18:03:12Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > The issues about oil and gas and placenta eating and defending Nicaragua’s left leaning government are all Washington bobble head talking points, pure gotcha stuff that does not matter. Progressives will stay on focus on the big issues, which are getting money out of politics, preserving the American middle class by fighting wealth inequality, and breaking up the big banks and regulating them so they don’t screw up again, as they surely will under Hillary. Have fun with it, guys, it won’t change the big issues. It goes both to his credibility and his ability to get things done, both of which are important characteristics of a good President. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/194 "2016-04-08T18:08:55Z")
Looking at my Facebook feed and comments under stories run by the New York Times, it sure doesn’t look like Progressives are focusing on the “big issues”. Instead they are perfectly happy to play “pure gotcha stuff that does not matter” with respect to Hillary Clinton. Why the double standard? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/195 "2016-04-08T18:14:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Some individuals, and it only really takes one, yes. This isn’t a big plan or all that long-range or even subterfugeous (real word or not, I’m using it). It’s just playing the game, and not on a deep level, either. So one person from the DNC persuaded a non-Democrat Independent to give up his life so that he could spend 24 hours a day at the age of 74 traveling the country to challenge Hillary Clinton … but it’s not a big plan or even subterfugeous? And the DNC went along with this while simultaneously sabotaging all the debates by putting them at times nobody would watch? Did this person tell anybody else at the DNC what he or she was doing? What did Debbie Wasserman Schultz know and when did she know it? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/196 "2016-04-08T18:30:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > It goes both to his credibility and his ability to get things done, both of which are important characteristics of a good President. That’s pretty much the standard boilerplate response to complaints about “gotcha” journalism and commentary. Pretty much anything can be described in those terms. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/197 "2016-04-08T18:31:31Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Looking at my Facebook feed and comments under stories run by the New York Times, it sure doesn’t look like Progressives are focusing on the “big issues”. Instead they are perfectly happy to play “pure gotcha stuff that does not matter” with respect to Hillary Clinton. > > Why the double standard? I’m sure if you go trolling Facebook, twitter and youtube commentary you’ll find supporters of everyone and everything saying stupid things. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/198 "2016-04-08T18:39:01Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > That’s pretty much the standard boilerplate response to complaints about “gotcha” journalism and commentary. Pretty much anything can be described in those terms. Except that it wasn’t ‘gotcha’ journalism. That _is_ Bernie’s record, and those _are_ things he has said and done, and so far as I can see, stands by. Like it or not, that ‘boilerplate’ is true. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/199 "2016-04-08T18:50:33Z")
Near as I can tell, for Bernheads the definition of gotcha journalism seems to include anything that might reflect poorly upon their idol. It definitely does not seem to include anything that reflects poorly or awkwardly on Hillary Clinton. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Good point. Look at how their neglect of state and local races has fucked the Democratic Party up big time. The Republicans worked hard at getting judges and state government officials into positions of power while the DNC slept. Now the White House is the slender reed upon which all hopes of Democrats retaining power at the federal level depend, as the state government Republicans have gerrymandered the living hell out of all the electoral maps. This is pretty rich coming from a Bernie supporter, given that Hillary has raised over 30 million dollars this cycle for downballot candidates and the DNC, while Bernie only raises money for himself. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/200 "2016-04-08T19:10:49Z")
> [@Sputnikkk](#): > > Bambi vs Godzilla, and Sanders is Bambi? > … Nope. If you actually want to know who or what Bambi and Godzilla are in the metaphor of this thread, you’ll have to read the opening post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205.md?page=11)