# Bambi versus Godzilla: the illusions of Sanders-supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 4, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205 "2016-04-04T22:59:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/61 "2016-04-06T15:04:47Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Any debate would have shown you that Clinton has a far greater command of the facts and political process than Sanders displayed there. > > Anyways, Sanders’ website is also devoid of what he would exactly do (no wonder he didn’t have an answer): > > [https://berniesanders.com/issues/reforming-wall-street/](https://berniesanders.com/issues/reforming-wall-street/) In other words, there are no HRC press interviews where she responds to questions with specific plans. Thought so. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/62 "2016-04-06T15:13:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > However, if her approach is to sell herself this way then it’s not negative campaigning. If she does actually go negative she’ll lose support. And that’s what she’s said since the beginning of the campaign, up until now and I don’t think she feels she has to change. For example, she did an interview with Politico recently, and the line of questioning came up about how specific her policies are in her speeches compared to other candidates: [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/transcript-politicos-glenn-thrush-interviews-hillary-clinton-221512](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/transcript-politicos-glenn-thrush-interviews-hillary-clinton-221512) > [@](#): > > GLENN THRUSH: Not a lot of that going on in this campaign, the listening thing, right? I mean, there seems to be a very–this seems to be a campaign about simplifying message. I mean, to me that’s also an observation I made when I saw you out in Iowa, and I wrote about it, that you give the most complex speeches. > SEC. CLINTON: Mm-hmm. I do. > GLENN THRUSH: You give a lot of information– > SEC. CLINTON: Right. > GLENN THRUSH: --in those speeches. > SEC. CLINTON: Right. > GLENN THRUSH: Your opponent and your potential opponent are people who do not give– > SEC. CLINTON: Right. > GLENN THRUSH: --an enormous amount of granular detail. > SEC. CLINTON: Right. > GLENN THRUSH: Have you ever thought about just simplifying it, or do you think this is the path that is an important one to take? > SEC. CLINTON: It’s the path that I prefer. > GLENN THRUSH: Right. > SEC. CLINTON: And it’s the path that I think leads to a better outcome. So, example, earlier today, here in Syracuse, we had a roundtable discussion about my plan to improve manufacturing by investing and creating more incentives to bring jobs back, reshore jobs, create jobs here. And we were talking to about a half-a-dozen people who I had helped with their businesses when I was a senator, because, you see, I really believe part of what this campaign has to do is rebuild people’s faith in our national mission. > [@](#): > > SEC. CLINTON: --you know, “forget the plan, just, you know, do the rhetorical flourish.” I really believe that when this is all over–and I will have won, hopefully–in large measure it will be because I came out and told people, “Here’s what I want to do, here’s how I think I can do it, here are the results I believe I can get, and I want you to hold me accountable for it.” > I think that’s what politics should be about, so I’m very comfortable doing that. Clinton does get a lot of flack for being overly wonky (interestingly enough it seems that President Bill Clinton surrounded himself with wonks… his wife, his VP), but it seems to her that she think that’s the way to a better country, regardless of whether it inspires or no. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/63 "2016-04-06T15:15:31Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I didn’t much want Clinton, myself. But she’s the only one running who will win. > > Win the nomination as well as the election. Sanders won’t. He never could. He isn’t now and his future is even worse. > > Is winning all that matters? This year? Hell, yeah. > > There are no other arguments. > > If you want a progressive moment, start it from the bottom up. Don’t try top down. If a progressive doesn’t get the nomination you know whose fault it is? Progressives. No one else has any blame. Yeah, but if a centrist wins the nomination and doesn’t get the progressives’ votes, it’s the progressives’ fault, to hear many on this board tell it. If a centrist can’t get progressives’ votes, you know whose fault it is? The centrists’. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/64 "2016-04-06T15:38:41Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Any debate would have shown you that Clinton has a far greater command of the facts and political process than Sanders displayed there. > > Anyways, Sanders’ website is also devoid of what he would exactly do (no wonder he didn’t have an answer): > > [https://berniesanders.com/issues/reforming-wall-street/](https://berniesanders.com/issues/reforming-wall-street/) you’ve got to be kidding. Did you even read the document. It states clearly that if elected Sanders would A) Introduce legislation designed to break up the six biggest banks in the US. B) Reintroduce Glass-Steagall protections into the financial system C) Plans to tax Wall Street high-speed trading to fund education What the fuck, how is that and all the other points made not indicating exactly what he would do? Do you want the text of actual legislation he would introduce or what? Hillary’s list is better than I expected. For example, she pledges to go after individuals as well as corporations when they break the law or put the system at risk. Now that means jailing bankers when they do wrong. But then she says she’ll defend Dodd-Frank in Congress, but the problem is, Dodd-Frank has already been rendered fairly toothless by the current Congress. I guess the thing is, both Sanders and Clinton look good on opposing Wall Street … on paper. But I just don’t believe Hillary will follow through, because you know, she keeps taking all that Wall Street money. They’re not paying her for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/65 "2016-04-06T15:46:37Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > And that’s what she’s said since the beginning of the campaign, up until now and I don’t think she feels she has to change. For example, she did an interview with Politico recently, and the line of questioning came up about how specific her policies are in her speeches compared to other candidates: > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/transcript-politicos-glenn-thrush-interviews-hillary-clinton-221512](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/transcript-politicos-glenn-thrush-interviews-hillary-clinton-221512) > > Clinton does get a lot of flack for being overly wonky (interestingly enough it seems that President Bill Clinton surrounded himself with wonks… his wife, his VP), but it seems to her that she think that’s the way to a better country, regardless of whether it inspires or no. Any hard questions in that interview? Any push for specifics, or how she would get things done? There’s no comparison to the questions the DN asked Sanders. Between the DN cite and this one, I see you must be subscribing to her campaign emails. This interview is part of the strategy to make her appear more likeable. Appear being the key word. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/66 "2016-04-06T15:46:50Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > you’ve got to be kidding. Did you even read the document. It states clearly that if elected Sanders would > A) Introduce legislation designed to break up the six biggest banks in the US. > B) Reintroduce Glass-Steagall protections into the financial system > C) Plans to tax Wall Street high-speed trading to fund education > > What the fuck, how is that and all the other points made not indicating exactly what he would do? Do you want the text of actual legislation he would introduce or what? Wait seriously?! For A - What legislation? Is it going to be a Bill of Attainder or is there something more specific he’d use to determine the biggest banks? That’s the whole question involved in the Daily News article. How is he going to do this? I mean the “Too Big Too Fail Act” is woefully vague (have you read it? - it’s like 3 pages) Reintroducing Glass-Steagall is a plan as is a financial transaction tax (which, interestingly enough, Clinton mentioned first… so it isn’t just Clinton ‘taking’ Sanders’ positions ;)) - but is that it? Does he really think that by itself will reign in “Wall Street”? I guess text of actual legislation may be good ;), but barring that give me some specifics of how you are going to structure your plans. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/67 "2016-04-06T15:52:04Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Between the DN cite and this one, I see you must be subscribing to her campaign emails. Or, you know, I read the news and know how to Google. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/68 "2016-04-06T15:54:32Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Wait seriously?! For A - What legislation? Is it going to be a Bill of Attainder or is there something more specific he’d use to determine the biggest banks? That’s the whole question involved in the Daily News article. How is he going to do this? I mean the “Too Big Too Fail Act” is woefully vague (have you read it? - it’s like 3 pages) > > Reintroducing Glass-Steagall is a plan as is a financial transaction tax (which, interestingly enough, Clinton mentioned first… so it isn’t just Clinton ‘taking’ Sanders’ positions ;)) - but is that it? Does he really think that by itself will reign in “Wall Street”? > > I guess text of actual legislation may be good ;), but barring that give me some specifics of how you are going to structure your plans. Well Teddy Roosevelt SOMEHOW managed to break up AT&T by breaking it up into regional companies … I’m betting Bernie can reintroduce regional banking. We’d have Chase South, Chase West, Chase Mountains, Chase Midwest, Chase Northeast, etc. and the same for the five other banks Sanders mentioned. A Bill of Attainder it would not be, it would not be a criminal prosecution for an act done in the past that once was once legal, but a preventative to prevent future illegality. Sanders has not proposed putting the bankers in jail for past acts … but i’m sure he’d go after them if they pulled shenanigans in the future … as they most certainly will. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/69 "2016-04-06T15:59:39Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Or, you know, I read the news and know how to Google. Right. Just a coincidence I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/70 "2016-04-06T16:00:56Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well Teddy Roosevelt SOMEHOW managed to break up AT&T by breaking it up into regional companies … I’m betting Bernie can reintroduce regional banking. We’d have Chase South, Chase West, Chase Mountains, Chase Midwest, Chase Northeast, etc. and the same for the five other banks Sanders mentioned. > > A Bill of Attainder it would not be, it would not be a criminal prosecution for an act done in the past that once was once legal, but a preventative to prevent future illegality. Sanders has not proposed putting the bankers in jail for past acts … but i’m sure he’d go after them if they pulled shenanigans in the future … as they most certainly will. By… magic? Here is MotherJones (no conservative rag) on Sanders’ “Too Big to Fail” Act: > **[Bernie Sanders' plan to break up the banks: too big to succeed?](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/09/bernie-sanders-break-banks-too-big-fail/)** > > It's not at all clear how his four-page bill would work. > [@](#): > > But amid the hoopla, a simple question has been missed: Even if you support the goal behind the proposal, is his plan to break up Wall Street at all feasible? > > “The bill doesn’t actually have a plan,” says Michael Greenberger, a former financial regulator at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and a law professor at the University of Maryland. “It defers to financial regulators to develop the plan. So really, there is no plan.” > > Liberal financial reform warriors certainly appreciate Sanders’ spirit and tend to agree with the sentiment of the bill. But they can’t really explain whether or how it would work. “It’s hard to think through what the consequences of it are,” says Mike Konczal, a fellow at the progressive Roosevelt Institute. > > The bill vaguely directs one branch of the executive branch’s regulators to identify which banks are too big, and then gives the treasury secretary a year to figure out the best way to disassemble each institution—without any sort of guidance on how the treasury secretary should go about divvying up these companies into smaller chunks. The bill, tellingly, has no other cosigners. Is this really a Plan at all? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/71 "2016-04-06T16:03:20Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Right. Just a coincidence I’m sure. I’m not subscribed to her campaign emails, but I was subscribed to Obama’s in 2008. Why would that be a negative? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/72 "2016-04-06T16:05:10Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m not subscribed to her campaign emails, but I was subscribed to Obama’s in 2008. Why would that be a negative? I imagine its an attempt to characterize opponents as campaign shills, rather than actually asking important questions. In that way, serious concerns can be brushed aside as merely “campaign talking points”. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/73 "2016-04-06T16:05:13Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > By… magic? > > Here is MotherJones (no conservative rag) on Sanders’ “Too Big to Fail” Act: > > [Bernie Sanders’ Bank Plan: Too Big to Succeed? – Mother Jones](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/09/bernie-sanders-break-banks-too-big-fail) > The bill, tellingly, has no other cosigners. Is this really a Plan at all? Call it a declaration of intent, then. Why are you all so buffaloed at the thought that Washington might be able to regulate businesses? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/74 "2016-04-06T16:06:38Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Call it a declaration of intent, then. Declarations of intent are not plans! You need to actually come up with some comprehensive ideas of how to do things, rather than “we’ll just wing it when we get into office”. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/75 "2016-04-06T16:12:01Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I imagine its an attempt to characterize opponents as campaign shills, rather than actually asking important questions. In that way, serious concerns can be brushed aside as merely “campaign talking points”. Coordinated “serious concerns” using the same cites. That’s the definition of talking points. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/76 "2016-04-06T16:18:40Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > What did you learn, out of curiosity? [Woo crackpottery](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19232152&postcount=145) in which women are responsible for their own cervical cancer because they aren’t sexually liberated enough (quite ironic considering the cause of most cervical cancer). It was a long time ago, but it coincides with his current opinions on GMOs and nuclear power rather too well for me to brush it aside. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/77 "2016-04-06T16:21:35Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > you’ve got to be kidding. Did you even read the document. It states clearly that if elected Sanders would > A) Introduce legislation designed to break up the six biggest banks in the US. > B) Reintroduce Glass-Steagall protections into the financial system > C) Plans to tax Wall Street high-speed trading to fund education A) Good luck getting that past Congress. B) Ditto. C) Triple ditto. > [@](#): > > What the fuck, how is that and all the other points made not indicating exactly what he would do? Do you want the text of actual legislation he would introduce or what? So, in other words, he will get nothing done. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/78 "2016-04-06T16:23:59Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Do you want the text of actual legislation he would introduce or what? The texts of legislation he’s previously introduced over his many years in Congress would do fine. :dubious: > [@](#): > > I just don’t believe Hillary will follow through But Sanders will. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/79 "2016-04-06T16:25:02Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Coordinated “serious concerns” using the same cites. That’s the definition of talking points. _Yawn_ Can I characterize discussions of “Wall Street speaking fees” as just using talking points? I’m fascinated by the attempted hand waving away of Sanders partisans of things by claiming they are just talking points. As if those on the other side can’t claim similar (the meme nickname “BernieBot” came from somewhere). ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/80 "2016-04-06T16:32:23Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > _Yawn_ Can I characterize discussions of “Wall Street speaking fees” as just using talking points? > > I’m fascinated by the attempted hand waving away of Sanders partisans of things by claiming they are just talking points. As if those on the other side can’t claim similar (the meme nickname “BernieBot” came from somewhere). Of course the “Wall Street speaking fees” are talking points. Campaigns have talking points. I’m actually actively campaigning for Sanders and other progressive down ballots right now, but I haven’t posted here using any of the scripted talking points. Just curious to see anyone who is doing that for any of the campaigns. I’m not hand waving. The DN interview and the HRC politico interview are not comparable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205.md?page=5)