# Bambi versus Godzilla: the illusions of Sanders-supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 4, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205 "2016-04-04T22:59:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/121 "2016-04-07T01:28:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Only a slight derailment… > > I swear I want to take the word ‘momentum’ out back behind the woodshed and thrash it with a stick. I’m afraid that it’s too late to do so proactively. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/122 "2016-04-07T02:30:32Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > You make Sanders sound like Donald Trump. Sanders has a long history of getting bills passed in the teeth of opposition, as I pointed out in my previous post. 7 amendments as a Rep and 6 amendments as a Senator, according to your link. I don’t consider that as much of a success as you do. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/123 "2016-04-07T02:54:09Z")
Hey, he’s only been in Congress a quarter of a century, give him some time. Uh yeah, one amendment every two years, for things like giving grants to colleges that cooperated to reduce costs through joint purchases of goods and services, is something to be proud of? But he did also get _three_ sponsored bills passed! Two post offices now have names that they did not have before. Woo hoo! He da man! I do give him props for his good work on the VA bill. But seriously that is _a lot of years_ of service with with fairly little to show for it. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/124 "2016-04-07T03:50:52Z")
[Bernie Sanders: Hillary Clinton is not ‘qualified’ to be president](http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-qualified/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/125 "2016-04-07T04:11:17Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > [Bernie Sanders: Hillary Clinton is not ‘qualified’ to be president](http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-qualified/index.html) Yep, that from a man who couldn’t even answer the simplest detail questions about the centerpiece of his policy. If Hillary’s not qualified, Bernie shouldn’t even be running. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/126 "2016-04-07T04:14:57Z")
How is Bernie supposed to get his supporters on board to support Hillary after saying she is not qualified? FFS. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/127 "2016-04-07T04:52:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Hey, he’s only been in Congress a quarter of a century, give him some time. Uh yeah, one amendment every two years… Yes, that was surprisingly weak. So surprising that I pulled out my 2004 edition of _The Almanac of American Politics_. For those who don’t know the Almanac gives profiles of all members of Congress for the edification of lobbyists who trend neurotypical center-right, but need to work with everyone. Sander defeated Peter Smith in 1990 on the basis of that Republican’s support for the assault weapons ban, which played poorly in rural Vermont. So they elected the radically socialist _and effective_ Mayor of Burlington after some prodding by the NRA, who would later turn against him. In 2002 (!), Sanders penned a think-piece for the _People’s Weekly World_, the newspaper of the Communist Party USA. Key quote: “A handful of corporations control the flow of information in the United States.” He helped found the Progressive Caucus which put out an annual plan advocating single payer insurance, a 50% smaller military over 5 years and support for family farms. All that said, Sanders plays well with others and often reached out to Republican members in order to target corporate welfare. We would jaw jaw against Big Pharma and press to allow drug imports from Canada. In Feb 2001 he proposed a $300 per person income tax credit which after initial Republican opposition and some sausage processing was adopted by George Bush and became law. Anyway, contrary to some readings of the Alternet article, Sanders wasn’t a complete doorknob. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/128 "2016-04-07T06:14:36Z")
Bernie uses a somewhat broader definition of “qualified” than I’m used to. I see what he’s saying, but by my definition, he doesn’t think she’s “unqualified” to be President — just that he thinks she’d be a _bad_ President. (And was this said before or after Hillary supposedly decided to “go negative”?) ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/129 "2016-04-07T07:26:50Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Bernie uses a somewhat broader definition of “qualified” than I’m used to. I see what he’s saying, but by my definition, he doesn’t think she’s “unqualified” to be President — just that he thinks she’d be a _bad_ President. > > (And was this said before or after Hillary supposedly decided to “go negative”?) It’s kinda confusing, he was saying Hillary is unqualified as a response to her saying he was unqualified, except Clinton never said as much. His line of attack is really making him look like the bad guy. He said Clinton is going to go negative then raced out in front to beat her to it. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/130 "2016-04-07T08:48:30Z")
No kidding! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/131 "2016-04-07T12:57:20Z")
He’s not racing out in front: it’s where he’s been for a while now. Her first “negative” was to capitalize on his NYDN flub in which his basic answers for details on his plans could have been given by Trump. Her big foray into negative was [to say](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/04/06/clinton_nydn_interview_shows_bernie_sanders_hasnt_done_his_homework_about_breaking_up_the_banks.html) that he has not done his homework and that she can better deliver on doiing the job. > [@](#): > > CLINTON: Well, I think he hadn’t done his homework and he’d been talking for more than a year about doing things that he obviously hadn’t really studied or understood, and that does raise a lot of questions. Really what that goes to is for voters to ask themselves can he deliver what he’s talking about, can he really help people… > > SCARBOROUGH: What do you think? > > CLINTON: Can he help our economy? Can he keep our country strong? Well obviously, I think I’m by far the better choice and… > > SCARBOROUGH: But do you think he is qualified? And do you think he is able to deliver on the things he is promising to all these Democratic voters? > > CLINTON: Well, let me put it this way, Joe. I think that what he has been saying about the core issue in his whole campaign doesn’t seem to be rooted in an understanding of either the law or the practical ways you get something done. And I will leave it to voters to decide who of us can do the job that the country needs, who can do all aspects of the job, both on the economic domestic issues and on national security and foreign policy. Yes, given the bait to say he was unqualified _she declined_. Sanders? Bait? [He don’t need no stinking bait.](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/04/07/bernie_sanders_to_hillary_clinton_i_dont_think_you_are_qualified_to_be_president.html) > [@](#): > > She has been saying lately that she thinks that I am quote unquote not qualified to be president … I don’t think she is qualified if she is through her Super PAC taking tens of millions of dollars in special interest money … I don’t think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in Iraq … But again, the same song he’s been singing for a while now. And no response to the actual thing said. And the fact that he lied again? (His claim that she said he was “not qualified” is in fact NOT what she said but what she was asked to say and _refused_ to.) Has unfortunately become par for his course. Okay, let’s be generous here. Maybe not a “lie” per se, any more than GW Bush’s statement about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was necessarily a lie. An “untruth.” Could be that a staff told him that is what she said and he uncritically ran with it as it fit the narrative he wants to hear. The portrayal of him as someone who is “principled” seems to be a complete work of fiction. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/132 "2016-04-07T13:06:21Z")
I think the “quote unquote” part really makes it a a slimy lie. (And oh how I hate when people put both the “quote” and the “unquote” in front of whatever verbiage they are quoting, even though I recognize that this has become the idiom. It’s stupid and doesn’t make any sense, so it sounds uncouth, kind of like “I could care less”.) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/133 "2016-04-07T13:43:10Z")
Well the “quote … unquote” does eliminate any possibility that he was paraphrasing what he believes she meant or was implying by what she was saying. It made it a clear claim of a quote of a statement _that was never made_, in order to justify his ugly behaviors. If the primaries were on this board that would be a warning for altering the contents of the quote box. 🙂 It is a very scuzzy thing to do and on the heels of his “[three Pinocchios](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/04/02/fact-checking-the-clinton-sanders-spat-over-big-oil-contributions/)” lies about oil and gas industry contributions it is a pattern of dishonesty that I find very disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/134 "2016-04-07T14:06:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes, given the bait to say he was unqualified _she declined_. She did no such thing. She just weasel-worded it with her “let me put it this way.” There’s no doubt that it was basically a negative answer to the question. That said, I’m not very pleased with Bernie’s attack, either. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/135 "2016-04-07T14:33:45Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > She did no such thing. She just weasel-worded it with her “let me put it this way.” … No offense but … **bullshit**. She, explicitly asked to call him “unqualified” _refused to do so_. There is a huge order of difference between what she did say and saying that. Saying that he has not done his homework and that, well, the voters need “to decide who of us can do the job that the country needs” is a far far far cry from saying he is “unqualified.” She merely says she is much better qualified. His comment OTOH was both a straight up baldfaced … “untruth”, and a statement that she is not qualified to be president (not that he is better qualified). That is hard to come back from to full throated embrace … it fits in fine with the ugliness of the GOP side though. The general election serious damage phase is accelerating and his lack of ethics and of decency is on full display. He does not seem to give a fuck about sinking the boat if he cannot control the rudder. Shit. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/136 "2016-04-07T14:55:08Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No offense but … **bullshit**. Oh I’m scared. He put it in size 4 and bold. That really puts me in my place! If you weren’t suffering from Bernie Derangement Syndrome, you could see the other side of Hil’s weaseling: when asked straight up the simple question of whether Sanders is qualified, she _refuses to admit it._ ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/137 "2016-04-07T15:00:33Z")
Uh… **Biffy** , Scarborough asked her TWO questions at once. Clinton answered the second one. She didn’t tough the first one (she didn’t take the bait). To claim that weasel-worded it is stretching to the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/138 "2016-04-07T15:06:37Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Uh… **Biffy** , Scarborough asked her TWO questions at once. Clinton answered the second one. She didn’t tough the first one (she didn’t take the bait). To claim that weasel-worded it is stretching to the extreme. Yeah, I read it as a response to both questions, but I can see your view. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/139 "2016-04-07T15:22:40Z")
It wasn’t just the interview on Morning Joe. This was [media driven](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/04/07/sanderss-incorrect-claim-that-clinton-called-him-not-qualified-for-the-presidency/?tid=pm_politics_pop_b): > [@](#): > > Many readers have asked about these remarks by Bernie Sanders, which led him to list the ways that he thought the former secretary of state was “not qualified” to become president. Did Clinton really say Sanders was unqualified? > > The facts: > > Warren Gunnels, a senior adviser to Sanders, justified the phrasing by pointing to two items: a Washington Post headline and a quote in a CNN article. > > The Washington Post article had this headline: “Clinton questions whether Sanders is qualified to be president.” > > The CNN report included this sentence: “The campaign’s deputy communications director, Christina Reynolds, argued that Sanders is unqualified.” The sentence appeared before a description of a campaign missive that Reynolds had written, drawing attention to a problematic interview that Sanders had with the editorial board of the Daily News. > > “Senator Sanders believes there are serious differences in this race that show who is best qualified to be President,” Gunnels said. “It’s remarkable that Secretary Clinton could suggest Senator Sanders isn’t qualified to be President in the morning and then fake outrage at her own statements that same evening.” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205/140 "2016-04-07T15:30:44Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Hey, he’s only been in Congress a quarter of a century, give him some time. Uh yeah, one amendment every two years, for things like giving grants to colleges that cooperated to reduce costs through joint purchases of goods and services, is something to be proud of? > > But he did also get _three_ sponsored bills passed! Two post offices now have names that they did not have before. Woo hoo! He da man! What a silly summary. [Here are some selected sponsorships by Sanders](http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/27110/bernie-sanders?sponsorships=1#.VwZylfl97rc) from [VoteSmart.org](http://VoteSmart.org). Contrast these with Ted Cruz’s priorities. Click on some of Sanders’ sole sponsorships. For example, his Amendment to the Emergency Senior Citizens Relief Act got a 53-45 affirmative vote … which wasn’t enough due to GOP filibuster. When he was in the House, he was sole sponsor of a successful revocation of Section 215 of the USA Patriot Act (though that section wasn’t actually revoked — what happened?). In contrast, Paul Rand has had ZERO of his sole-sponsored bills enacted according to [www.govtrack.us](http://www.govtrack.us). The same site shows that Newt Gingrich, in Congress for 20 years, had ONE sole-sponsored bill enacted: “H.R. 4354 (105th): To establish the United States Capitol Police Memorial Fund on behalf of the families of Detective John Michael Gibson and Private First Class Jacob Joseph Chestnut of the United States Capitol Police.” _I’m not claiming Rand and Gingrich were ineffective Congressmen — I’m claiming **DSeid** ’s criterion shows ignorance of how Congress functions._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bambi-versus-godzilla-the-illusions-of-sanders-supporters/751205.md?page=8)