The fact that we can so easily find contradictions in your position might indicate your position is untenable.
Anyhoo, I didn’t consider the matter a “game”, myself, but if we were to use that analogy:
There exists a game with a bunch of rules that have evolved over time with the intent of making the game playable for most of the people most of the time. What you’re proposing is a rule change to crack down on perceived “cheaters”. The problems are that:
[ul][li]Your rule change could trap some honest players, despite trying to build in exceptions to cover them;[/li][li]The people who you claim are “cheating” will simply use your exceptions and continue playing as before, since you have no good way to weed them out from the honest players.[/li][li]Trying to put in serious measures of weeding out cheaters from honest players might trap some cheaters, but more likely it will just hassle honest players.[/li][li]Many players will view the rule as pointless (it makes the game unplayable) and ignore it, and hiring enough referees to catch the cheaters is prohibitive.[/li][li]The benefits offered by your new rule are unclear, at best.[/li][/ul]
How are you going to prove a woman was raped? Even if you require it to be reported, what’s to stop a woman from saying she was grabbed from behind, dragged somewhere very dark, raped under threat of force (to explain a lack of injuries), and she never saw her attacker? Absolutely nothing. They don’t have to falsely accuse someone, all they have to do is make up some masked rapist who never showed his face.
He meant that the game is your arguments as a whole, not how to sidestep a ban WRT getting an abortion by claiming rape. I too am beginning to get that same picture; actually both sides are giving great arguments on why abortion should not be allowed in cases of rape from my POV. It’s easy to make a scenario which will test a law or ban. People and lawyers do it every day. SCOTUS decides which side of the fence it will fall on. Abuse is already happening when abortion is allowed:
2 women, 2 to 21 men, and 21 deaths…My definition of Irresponsible.
No easier than having an abortion after a rape. But then again if you insert any crime after the words “I’ve been ___.”, the police are still gonna investigate and ask you questions and possibly do medical tests on whether you were raped, mugged, shot, stabbed, beaten, ran-over, drugged, (or any other trauma by criminal behavior) to substantiate the claim. Men can attest to all of these (including rape, but not becoming pregnant) as well as women, so to say that men have no perspective on this, you are wrong.
Both parties have already agreed that sperm and eggs are not a person, baby, or fetus until conception a very definable event (just like birth). It does not vex me either that sperm and eggs die, hence I am for conception control, but not birth control when the death of a fetus takes place.
Then why are you here acting like a shill and taking rhetorical pot-shots and wasting your time and ours?
Education and conception control is the responsibility of both the man and woman, that’s the responsibility that I am talking about. Abortion rates would be much lower if the everyone was more responsibile. 21 abortions by 2 women…Pretty damn high failure rate or just irresponsible?
Thanks for the site; I even found something that should help women (and men) who will be raped in the future by rapists who are still loose in the streets, because they were not apprehended yet…“control” over criminal behavior, not women’s lives is the issue here. What to do if you are raped…
I don’t understand why you’re talking about responsibility. If a committed couple practice safe sex, say by using two different good methods of contraception, and still fall pregnant, are they allowed to get an abortion ? They have been very responsible. If they are, how are you going to legislate how “responsible” you have to be to access an abortion ? If they aren’t allowed an abortion, why are you talking about responsibility at all? With no contraception being 100% failsafe, (short of a hysterectomy) responsibility just doesn’t enter into the equation. What exactly are you trying to say about responsibility ?
Yes, you can pick out anecdotes of people who constantly have unprotected sex and abort regularly, but that is hardly a typical example. I can also pick out anecdotes of peope who bomb abortion clinics, but what’s the point ? They aren’t the typical pro-lifer, either.
Yes, that site contains many important clues as to why women wouldn’t want to report rapes. From the page you linked:
But these women, reeling from the trauma and the abuse, should be legally bound to hie to the police because otherwise they will be forced to bear an unwanted fetus to term.
That is precisely what’s most important. The victim’s survival is most important, not whether she can meet some artificial standard for ability to withstand repeated trauma.
And that includes not going immediately to the police if doing so will intensify your trauma.
Indeed, I can even provide proof that my husband and I are using good methods of birth control, but no. We are just plain irresponsible, and I must bear (pardon the pun) the consequences!
Ah, but in order to “get” those two irresponsible women, your ban could create problems for ten women whose only crime was being on the unlucky side of a 1% contraceptive failure rate.
If you want to crack down on only the most irresponsible women, why not give all women four legal abortions, to be used at any time for any reason whatsoever (including being raped)? Then only the most “irresponsible” women will be affected.
The comatose patient, unless he is brain dead, will wake up. More importantly, he has a previously established identity of personhood. So a comotose patient, or anyone who is otherwise unconcious (such as asleep) still has a protected interest in life.
If so, an abortion after a rape will be at least a few weeks from the rape–not that same day. An abortion is also a choice, allowing the woman to control her own destiny. She can decide when to go and where to go. Workers at clinics will not treat her like a criminal or a specimen. She decides. She chooses. She controls.
Why are clues needed when there are websites and counselors that are telling you to seek medical attention and report to the police? Ball State U.First 6 paragraphs from Hope for Healing site
Again I ask, is not getting the rapist behind bars part of the healing process?
I said “No easier than having an abortion after a rape.” because I answered in the same manner when you stated:
(Emphasis on the word “easy”, with honorable mention to BE:) )
It was not my intention of stating that a pelvic exam and an abortion was “easy”, just that is about the same level of difficulty relative to each other.
I can provide proof too, and we did bear the consequences. We took the responsibility for our actions, and the kids are great!
If they are committed and responsible, then that sounds like there is a great foundation for a family. Why mess that up?
Hmmmm…Sounds similar to my AAA service! That sounds like a compromise that both parties will hate, but it seems that it would discourage outright abuse of the system, but I feel that fetus #1-4 would be singled out for death so that #5-infinity may live, be adodpted, illegally aborted, etc. It would be hypocritical on a pro-life POV, but the number of abortions would decrease, which helps, but still doesn’t cut it.
To you it sounds like a great foundation for a family. To me it sounds like it already is a happy (two person) family, that doesn’t want children right now, or ever. Why mess that up ?
Because, as I already showed you, there are also people who acknowledge that not every victim is going to want to do that. What part of only 16% reporting are you finding it difficult to understand? Those 84% what, just needed some patronizing, moralistic lawmakers to spur them to “do the right thing”? Or, could it be that these victims are attempting to cope with their horrible traumas in any way they can, which doesn’t include having supercilious people forcing them into actions they cannot bear?
What is this, torture the rape victim day? That’s a great idea! Let’s put her through as much additional trauma as we can as a sop to our own morality! Woo hoo!
Ask the 84% who didn’t report their assaults. In fact, I’d rather like to witness that, if it didn’t mean you’d be thrusting your opinions on people who certainly don’t deserve that. I’d rather like to see the reactions you would get when you oh-so-smugly declared that those women really had no excuse for not reporting the crimes.
Actually, that wasn’t I.
A pelvic exam immediately following sexual assault versus a procedure at a remove that is under the woman’s full control. You’ll forgive me if I don’t think they’re equally traumatic.
So what? Who cares? How is this remotely relevant?
Because I do not like children. Because I will not be pregnant under any circumstances. Because my mother’s pregnancies were often extremely difficult. Because I cannot afford children. Because my insurance doesn’t cover pregnancy. Because my husband and I have a severe genetic issue that we cannot pass on to future generations. Because my husband has a life-threatening disability that could take him from me at any moment, leaving me with no emotional support while I lug around a physical burden that you and your ilk long to impose upon me just so you can pat yourselves on the back and say you done good.
This is only the opinion of one person who survived it, but no, it’s not. Whether or not the rapist went to prison had no effect at all on my healing process. If you come away from this discussion with nothing else, remember this:
The rape itself was about the rapists, what they did to me, and what happened to them.
The healing was all about me, how I survived, and what I did to have a normal life.
They had enough a presence in my life in the 3 hours they spent attacking me. I’ll be damned if they were going to be any part of my healing process. Call me selfish if you want, but since the rape was about them, the healing was all about Six.
Walking into that clinic and knowing that no one would be poking and prodding and collecting evidence and trying to convince me to become a public figure, to have my family, my grandmother, my 10 year old cousin find out what happened to me made getting the EC one hell of a lot easier than what you would’ve expected of me. I would not have survived your expectations, Yeticus. It was hard enough without ever having to know my father looked at me and saw what was done to me.
I read this in disbelief. I don’t even really know how to respond to this. The assumption that two people who love each other and are committed would automatically view having a kid as a joyful event is just so blindly wrong that I can’t find the words to explain it. Mess that up? Mess that up?
Are you aware that sometimes two people who are in a loving and committed relationship would find that relationship destroyed by having a kid? Why mess up a beautiful relationship by adding something neither party wants?
You’re right, she should hunt them down and kill them.
She said the healing process wasn’t about them, so why should she feel compelled to spend one nanosecond of her time worrying about them?
If the rapists are arrested and charged, catsix may have a civic duty to testify as a witness, but beyond that, her “healing process” is entirely up to her, as it should be to any rape victim.
Oh! I’ll answer this one. I wish I hadn’t been born. If my mom had a kid later in life, that kid would have had a much better chance than me. It would have missed years of grueling poverty. It would have a mother that had finished her college education and probably gone on to great things instead of a waitress. It would have missed out on having an alchoholic father and my mom might have had a chance at finding a new, responsible, partner. I’m happy to be alive and all that, but I know that my life came at a great price. My mother was an straight A college student. She had scholarship offers and all kinds of stuff. She could have done anything she wanted with her life. And I know that it is me that kept that from happening.
That sounds like a compromise that both parties will hate, but it seems that it would discourage outright abuse of the system, but I feel that fetus