Ban Football

Great Debates
21

Geez.

First, the OP was obviously a troll, since the possibility of the most popular spectator sport in the USA (at least as far as TV ratings go) being banned is nil.

Second, as far as the OPoster’s points go, 1) Sure, it’s dangerous. So is driving your car. The people who play football know it’s dangerous and accept that risk. By the way, no player has ever been killed on the field playing pro football, which is one less than pro baseball can say (Ray Chapman, the only pro baseball player ever killed on the field, died in 1920 after being hit in the head by a pitch). Since pro baseball has thus been proven to be more dangerous than pro football, why aren’t you calling for banning baseball first? 2) It encourages violence. Prove this. In case you want to cite the spurious story about domestic violence going up on the day of the Spuer Bowl, don’t bother. That story has been proven false. 3) It encourages a militaristic way of thinking. Prove this. You can’t. China is much more militaristic than the US (if you doubt this, read your local paper and see who’s threatening to invade Taiwan. It ain’t us). The sports in which China has achieved significant success recently are table tennis, swimming, track, and gymnastics. You trying to tell me that playing ping-pong makes them want to invade Taiwan?

By the way, there’s no question that pro sports bring money into the metro area where they’re played. I’m originally from Kansas City, and pro baseball and football bring hundreds of thousands of fans from the surrounding four-state area (MO, KS, IA, NE) into the metro area to spend money at local restaurants, hotels, shops, and bars every year. Pro sports brings you a long-term net profit. It also gives you a national image. I assume that when you think of important cities in the US, you think of Kansas City before Louisville, Columbus, San Jose, Memphis, or even San Antonio. One reason is that KC has pro baseball and football and you hear about Kansas City every day on the sports news, while those other cities have no pro sports or are only represented in a less important league, either the NBA or the NHL. But all those other cities are about the same size as or even bigger than KC. KC is a known quantity and thus gets convention business. It’s a major-league city. Why isn’t Columbus a major-league city, though it’s about the same size as KC and has the advantages of having an important state university and being the state capital? Because Columbus has no significant pro sports.

If I were a city like Nashville or Jacksonville or Charlotte I’d do everything I could to get a significant pro sports franchise. They did. You now hear about them much more than you did before. Why? Because they’ve got pro football.

22

Maybe to you - you are from Kansas City. I am from Los Angeles. Trust me, I have heard far more about San Jose than about Kansas City. Hell, many Angelenos do not know where Kansas City is - they do not know that the majority of it is in Missouri. And they think it is a medium-sized, rather nondescript city.

Once again, it all depends on where you are from. Most people from Los Angeles (and some friends of mine in Seattle, and Atlanta) do not even know that Kansas City has pro sports teams. Or they do not know the name of the teams. And some of these people are not indifferent to sports.

I’m sure it gets it’s share of convention business. But it is all relative. Where I am from, it would certainly not be considered a “major league city”. This is not to say it’s a crappy city, but the truth is that many people’s perception of it is hazy. I mean, they don’t even know where it is…
While sports may be King in certain areas (like Kansas City) that does not mean, in any way, that the rest of the country is looking on, watching with awe and respect. The rest of the country has their own local things to think about…and often don’t even notice about some other (medium-sized) city’s sports teams. (Except for the occasional die-hard sports fan.)

23

{hijack}

Ok techchick, let’s take it to the pit.

{/hijack}

24

No no noooo, do not ban football.
During the season I can go out on Monday nights and Sunday afternoons and have the world almost all to myself.
I’ve never been to a game, but I love football. :slight_smile:
Peace,
mangeorge

25

Football isn’t militaristic or violent; it is rightly described as the ‘beautiful game’.

That strange version of the game we play in America, on the other hand… well, it isn’t football. :wink:

26

OOOHHHH that football!
Thought you meant soccer,mind you the arguments for still apply.

27

Well, I couldn’t resist responding to this idiot who obviously knows no history and especially the record of U.S. military agression, direct and indirect, in the post war period. In case you don’t realize it, idiot, that’s WWII. Suffice to say that dozens of countries have been on the receiving end.

Now then… Boy, I sure stirred up a lot of shit. Kind of reminds me of the reaction in the early 60’s when some of us first suggested that the War in Vietnam was not the noble endevor it was cracked up to be.

Hmmm, I wonder if it’s because questioning the healthiness of football is kind of like being unpatriotic during wartime.

Also, chess is an intellectual exercise,Pitting one person against another. It is more like intellectual boxing and in no way comparable to war. The essence of football and war is the organization of teams(armies) to do battle.

28

“Also, chess is an intellectual exercise,Pitting one person against another. It is more like intellectual boxing and in no way comparable to war. The essence of football and war is the organization of teams(armies) to do battle.”

I think you got a little worked up and blew it in this one, Robbespiere.
Two kingdoms, each trying to knock off the others defenses and capture the king?
Peace,
mangeorge

29

No, it’s because the idea of banning football is stupid. SingleDad, would you happen to know offhand the name of the fallacy where you claim “I must be right, I’m being persecuted by the majority.”

If I claimed that the earth was flat, I would get about the same reaction the Galileo got for claiming it was round. He was right, therefore I must be right. I could continue with the flaws in your logic, but this isn’t the pit.

30

Robbespiere,

Your second post, with all the militaristic terms, was done much better by George Carlin. Don’t plagerize the classics. You also said:

Puh-leese. I’ve been hearing this line and others like it from former flower children for years. Reguardless of weather or not you support the war in Vietnam ( and I don’t- at least not the way it was played out), The simple FACT of the matter is that stateside protests died almost completely when the Army stoped drafting young men to serve in Vietnam. The protests were enlightened self interest. The youngsters did not want to fight and die in Vietnam. Fine, nothing wrong with that, but stop trying to put some noble face on what went on.

Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.

31

Oh, and BTW, I love football. GO RAVENS!

Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.

32

Chess is a wargame. It was developed to teach military strategy of a basic nature. It remains an intellectual exercise in how to use might and initiative to overcome an opposing force. Having played it extensively for about 30 years, I can safely say it isn’t violent, except when you get to whack the opponent’s queen off the board in an exultant… ooops, nevermind. :wink:

33

Well, okay, someone finally figured out a way to make me watch football.

34

Speaking of the human cost of football-is anybody aware of the plight of retired players(not the well-paid quarterbacks, who usually escape serious injury)? I’m talking about the linebackers and running backs-who retire with smashed up knees, broken ribs, soft-tissue injuries. Most of these guys don’t make it to 55-and some are in constant pain from the joint injuries. For every player like Dan Marino (who can look forward to a fun retirement with lots of golf and beautiful women) there are lots of guys who are in really bad shape. They are the ones that pay the ultimate cost!

35

Football is a great American tradition. You must be a commie rat fink or something.

36

Yosemite: Good point, and well-taken. However, when you talk about important California cities in the Midwest, no one has even heard of San Jose unless they’re hockey fans. Spring the question, “California cities, which ones can you name?” at a local bar anywhere east of Denver and you’ll get for an answer, “L.A. San Francisco. Oakland, and San Diego. Sacramento’s the capital, and then…Anaheim?” San Jose, important and well-known to folks out there on the West Coast as it may be, has NO national reputation AT ALL. You say Silicon Valley, they think of Palo Alto where that university they’ve heard of is.

KC, on the other hand, is well-known to everyone west of Chicago and east of Denver. Political parties host their conventions here. (Last one was the Republicans in '76) Would any party ever hold a convention in San Jose?

My point is that KC is known, among other things, for its pro sports. Louisville is no different in size, but a lot different in importance, and one of the major differences is that its name is not in the column when you look at the pro baseball standings.

Robbespiere, you, sir, should at least learn to spell “Robespierre” correctly before you start calling other posters idiots or accusing them of knowing nothing about history. I laugh in your pathetic unlettered face. And don’t come back here and say that you really knew how to spell it but did it the way you did it for a joke.

37

I cannot speak for Native Midwesterners, but I always have thought San Jose to be famous for their well-respected newspaper, The San Jose Mercury News. But maybe this is a local (California) thing.

I wouldn’t know - I’m a native Californian - can’t speak for the entire nation on their feelings about San Jose! I can say, however, that KC has little national reputation on the West Coast. People think it’s in only in Kansas, for crying out loud. They think that it is full of farmers. Sorry - I’m not saying it’s right that they think this. People are pretty damned ignorant about these things.

I don’t know - I’m from L.A., so I don’t usually go to conventions in the Bay area. But San Jose is close enough to San Francisco to be kind of part of the S.F. area. At least to this Angeleno. Come to think of it, I am actually not from Los Angeles (but am from Los Angeles County) I am from the City of Glendale. You probably have not heard of it, it’s sort of “lumped” in to the Los Angeles area. (Glendale is a large enough city - it has many large businesses, and hosts conventions from time to time. As do many Los Angeles area cities.) I sort of lump San Jose in with San Francisco, the way I lump Glendale in with L.A. Maybe that’s just me. I don’t know how many conventions San Jose gets, but since it is not too far from S.F., I suspect it gets it’s share. Just like Glendale gets it’s share of prosperity and conventions by being near Los Angeles.

Not by the whole of the country. Like I said - many people in California do not even know that KC has any sports teams. Sports fans might, but not your average citizen. They don’t even know where KC is (just like you probably didn’t know where Glendale is, until I told you.)

Anyway, you make a good point - that sports teams are nice, have merit, and maybe they help put a city on the map a little more than a city without any sports teams. But, I don’t think they necessarily make an otherwise middle-sized city terribly noticable to the rest of the country. And, no matter how much revenue a city gets from it’s sports teams, it does not explain the need for team ICE CREAM and it does not explain why local fans feel the need to get drunk, dress up, decorate themselves, their cars and their houses with the team colors, and basically look like complete idiots. That’s just bizarre. :wink:

38

Yosemite–You argue well, but I bet you don’t know too many sports fans. Most American men and many American women are sports fans, and they recognize cities that have important sports teams. Cities that don’t have important sports teams slip below the horizon of national recognition. This is why cities around the US go nuts at the proposition of getting a team in their city.

39

Sports fans, sure. Every city has sports fans. (My dad was a Dodgers fan.) But not too many fervent sports fans. Because there aren’t that many in L.A. - at least not compared to some other parts of the country. You’ll never see a large and noticable group of L.A. sports fans decorating their cars, houses, themselves, to support the team. (I have to say it again - that is so odd.) You won’t find large amounts of L.A. residents all dressing up in the “team colors” on a particular day to show team support. In fact, except for the occasional bumper sticker, team hat or t-shirt, I see no outward evidence that L.A. has a lot of big fans. No special team ice cream, no special sections in stores selling team merchandise, nothing. Sports is fun, but it is not the center of the universe in L.A.

You probably remember - L.A. lost two football teams over the last several years, and no one cared. There were bumper stickers on cars in L.A. that said “Just go away” (or something to that effect) in regards to the football team. Hasta la vista baby. No one cared.

I cannot speak for all of America, just the area that I am most familiar with, the West Coast. Sports are not the center of existance, not to the level it is in the Midwest. At least that’s my general impression, from all the people I’ve encountered. Therefore, many West Coast people are probably not as immediately familiar with the other “sports significant” cities in the US as residents in the Midwest might be.

Sports teams may help cities gain recognition, but many cities already have something else to put them on the map. Like Los Angeles, for instance. It seems to be surviving well without a football team. And so is San Jose, and Glendale. I don’t know what size Glendale is compared to KC, but I don’t think it’s that much different in size. And it’s doing just fine.

This is amusing, seeing as Angelenos basically snubbed their nose at the idea of the NFL coming back to L.A. just recently. Los Angeles found that the NFL’s price was too high. Many sports editorials basically said “Who needs this? No one has missed football, we have better ways to spend our tax money. We have so many other things going on here in Los Angeles. Let the football team go to a smaller city - we don’t need football here.” And that’s what happened.

I don’t know about the rest of the county - I guess if the city has little else to recommend it, then a sports team could be a real shot in the arm. But - what does that say about the city? That if it didn’t have the “team”, it would be nothing? Sounds like such a city was probably never “major league city” material to begin with if it’s main claim to fame is a team.

I’m not saying that you are wrong - I’m sure that getting a team is monumentally important to some cities. I’m just not from one of those cities. Sports is not that desperately important to the city of L.A., or many of it’s residents. I’ve never encountered the level of sports obsession in Los Angeles that is evident in other areas, like the Midwest.

I mean, my first thought (when I see a person’s entire car decked out in the “team” colors) is “What is wrong with this person?” But it’s sort of amusing…a fervent fan. How cute. But when I see that the whole city is doing it, I begin to wonder “Does this city have anything else for the residents to do - or is this it? Is this the biggest thing for them - to prepare for the games, and dress up in dorky team colors, and decorate their houses and cars like this? Yikes!” I still wonder that. I just don’t get it!

40

4 the record I am a die hard NFL fan. And if there were any others here they would know that someone HAS died during a NFL game.
On Oct. 24, 1971 Chuck Hughes, a reserve wide reciever, died of a heart attack on the field. More importantly, the Lions lost to the hated Bears 28-23. :rolleyes:

I can’t believe there I’m hearing Angelinos talking up their city.
No, LA doesn’t need sports to gain fame. It has plenty of fame in America and around the world.
It is famous for “Riots, Fires, and Mudslides” as Buffet puts it. And I might add: Earthquakes, the LAPDogs, and Gridlock Traffic :p(Although my dad, a trucker, claims californian drivers R the most skilled. And he would know. But his vote 4 the best is the Bay Area drivers.)

How can U think football is not militaristic? What was a “sack” before Deacon Jones changed the meaning? Or “the blitz”?

As for tax money 2 build NFL stadiums, it’s crazy. Studies show it is wasted money. There are only 8 home games a year. Plus 2 exibition, excuse me: preseason, games.(For which tickets are FULL PRICE). Plus 8 cities each year get to host 1 postseason game(out of 31, soon to B 32, cities). And if U win that game U might get 2 host 1 more. At the most 12 games a year. Not a great deal at 300 million or more a pop.
There should be a law…
And this from the only hardcore fan around.

On the other hand, THE GREAT SCORER did say 2 keep the sabbath holy.

And another thing free agency is ruini…
what R U doing?
stop it righ…
OK. forget that.
Just keep your grubby foo-foo paws off my game.
“Is it OK 2 say that, honey?”
________________________________Salaam