# Ban on combat lifted = women registering for Selective Service? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721 "2015-09-02T17:34:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/41 "2015-12-07T15:02:30Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > For now? No. > > See, you have to understand WHO has been pushing to let women into combat. It isn’t ordinary enlisted women- they just want to make a living or save money for college. > > It’s female OFFICERS who want to get into combat, because combat experience is very helpful if you want to get promoted. > > So long as the ordinary females in the military don’t want combat, women won’t be drafted. What makes you think that lack of combat experience does not keep enlisted women from being promoted? I served in a Navy combat support unit that deployed detachments to front line areas. Although we at the deckplates believed that it was perfectly fine to deploy women with these detachments (this was 2002-2004), our leadership refused to allow enlisted women to deploy. The women filed a grievance that they were not able to compete for promotion due to this policy. I transferred before the grievance was resolved. As for the main thrust of this thread, yes the policy should be equal, whether Selective Service is continued or not. I personally believe that with the population as high as it is, Selective Service should be voluntary, for everyone. Provide some incentive to do it. I can’t think of a good incentive that would not be classist, such as tax breaks, but I think that people around the SDMB could come up with an incentive that would be equally enticing to rich and poor. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/42 "2015-12-07T15:25:45Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Keep registration (not a draft) but do not require women to register. This country should be ashamed if it _forces_ a 19 year old petit girl go to boot camp. A man? Well, if it thinks a draft is needed, then us guys need to pony up. The necessity of the draft is one for the elected representatives. Men unfit for combat are not, and have never in modern times, been drafted. In your post, you are assuming all women are unfit based upon a sexist world view. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/43 "2015-12-07T15:33:29Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > We should probably have some sort of rule that both parents in a family can’t be drafted, but which one gets picked should be random chance out of fairness. Women should no more be exempted for being a parent of a young child than a man should be. We already do have that rule: married couples who are both enlisted and have children will not be deployed simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/44 "2015-12-07T16:26:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We already do have that rule: married couples who are both enlisted and have children will not be deployed simultaneously. Actually, yes they can. Single parents can be deployed as well. They are required to have a family care plan in case the situation arises. [http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genfamily/a/familycare.htm](http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genfamily/a/familycare.htm) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/45 "2015-12-07T16:42:14Z")
You can provide uniform registration for all, and _then if/when_ a conscription is contemplated decide what billets need filling on need and qualification basis: that’s what “_Selective_ Service” is supposed to do. If the potential for conscription exists then putting someone’s name in the pool of potential eligibles needs to be uniformly applied to all who could normally fill those billets, be they male or female, cis or trans. (While at it I’d go further back deep and amend the legal fiction that the Militia of the United States is theoretically all able-bodied male citizens or citizen-aspirants ages 17-45, by making it just all citizens and citizen-aspirants.) That,\* if \*you want to keep the _sign-in registration method_. I suppose Congress could amend the Social Security and Selective Service laws so that the pool of potential draftees is just automatically anyone who’s in the list of SSN numbers and turned 18 last year, so nobody has to sign in \*and \*it becomes a \*universal \*mandate. > [@SmartAlecCat](#): > > My understanding is that the draft is just the first step – the draftee was evaluated for suitability, and only those deemed suitable actually went to war. Right. Of course if there was a period of “high demand” first the raw number of call-ups would rise and second the entry standards would loosen, but heck, the professional volunteer military already does the latter during lean years too. (For much of the existence of the US conscription, the local Draft Boards had a lot of discretion to pick and choose, the requirements were tightened towards the very end. The complaint was, and the reservation on the hypothetical still is, that some of the Right Kind of People would show up already holding the Right Kind of Letter signed by the Right Kind of Authority saying they had a good excuse and instead of looking closely at that, it was much easier just to move on to the next poor Joe who may have had no idea he even had a right to argue.) The 1980 revival of Selective Service registration was just low-cost Political Theater in response to situations at the time. By the time of the Bush41 administration the professional volunteer military was running well and registration could have been done away with as part of the post- Cold War “peace dividend” but, again, it was and remains no-cost Political Theater to leave it there. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/46 "2015-12-07T18:02:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We already do have that rule: married couples who are both enlisted and have children will not be deployed simultaneously. > [@Wolf333](#): > > Actually, yes they can. Single parents can be deployed as well. They are required to have a family care plan in case the situation arises. > > [http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genfamily/a/familycare.htm](http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genfamily/a/familycare.htm) An entirely reasonable requirement, provided a reasonable time frame is given for such plans to be drawn up for a draftee. ---
**Author:** ![Othello1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/5daacb/32.png) [@Othello1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Othello1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/47 "2015-12-08T17:14:57Z")
Discussing the draft in terms of gender equality is meaningless. The point of the army isn’t to be fair or un-sexist. It’s not like everyone has some kind of inherent right to serve their country in battle. There is only ONE measure for success of an army, and that is whether it wins or loses. if an army with women in it can beat an army without women, then that’s what we should have. Heck, if an army of only women was most effective, we should fire all the men. If the shit hits the fan and your citizens are slaughtered because the army was routed because people were more concerned about gender equality than actually winning, that would really be unfair to all the men women and children. If we as humans are going to continue to have wars, let the army be so-called unfair. If not, your opponents will be and you will lose. Basic survival of the fittest. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/48 "2015-12-08T17:56:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Why not? > > Of course, they would not have to report for boot camp/training/duty until after their baby is delivered and they have recovered from labor and delivery, but that’s simply a temporary deferment. > > We should probably have some sort of rule that both parents in a family can’t be drafted, but which one gets picked should be random chance out of fairness. Women should no more be exempted for being a parent of a young child than a man should be. Realistically while as a society we might be egalitarian enough to accept the idea of women being drafted, I doubt that in the foreseeable future there will be the political will to draft a new mother with an infant child. If there ever was a draft I suspect that there would be a significant increase in pregnancies as women sought to avoid the draft in the same way that there was an upswing in interest in college as men sought education deferments for Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/49 "2015-12-08T18:03:05Z")
One of the arguments against the Equal Rights Amendment was that it would lead to women being drafted. Finish ratifying the ERA & we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/50 "2015-12-09T23:46:58Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Girls and women are neither helpless beings nor more precious than boys and men. With the ban on combat lifted, women should be held equally responsible as men to registering for and being selected in a draft, because women have just as much at stake. Can every woman succeed as a soldier? Of course not. But that is not the measure we use for anything else. > > The draft is monstrous, but it should be equal opportunity monstrousness. Our laws should treat us equally, even if the law itself is a bad one. We all understand that the draft is to fill the ranks of cannon fodder and not for office workers, right? The office workers tend to last longer than front line infantry. And we also agree that an overwhelmingly larger percentage of men will be suited for this job compared to women? I’m not saying that NO women are qualified just the same as I am not saying that ALL men are qualified. I’m sure some 60 year old men would be qualified as well, but we don’t draft them because we don’t want to weed through thousands of old men to find the diamond in the rough, right? For the same reason, we shouldn’t draft women. And, again, call me old fashioned, but society that forces women to the front line instead of a man stepping up to take her place has failed at its basic duty according to our history and traditions. Flame away at this last paragraph, but at least address the ones before it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/51 "2015-12-09T23:49:13Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > We all understand that the draft is to fill the ranks of cannon fodder and not for office workers, right? The office workers tend to last longer than front line infantry. > > And we also agree that an overwhelmingly larger percentage of men will be suited for this job compared to women? I’m not saying that NO women are qualified just the same as I am not saying that ALL men are qualified. > > I’m sure some 60 year old men would be qualified as well, but we don’t draft them because we don’t want to weed through thousands of old men to find the diamond in the rough, right? > > For the same reason, we shouldn’t draft women. And, again, call me old fashioned, but society that forces women to the front line instead of a man stepping up to take her place has failed at its basic duty according to our history and traditions. Flame away at this last paragraph, but at least address the ones before it. You actually are making my point. If all you’re after is cannon fodder, I’d be _excellent_ at it, girly bits and all. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/52 "2015-12-09T23:52:24Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You actually are making my point. If all you’re after is cannon fodder, I’d be _excellent_ at it, girly bits and all. Well, we expect you to take a few of the other side with you instead of painting your nails. 🙂 I’m joking, but you understand the colloquial term “cannon fodder.” It doesn’t mean to simply get shot. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/53 "2015-12-09T23:58:12Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > We all understand that the draft is to fill the ranks of cannon fodder and not for office workers, right? No, we do not all understand that. Some of us, such as us veterans, are aware that draftees have been assigned to just about every MOS/AFSC/Rating in the military during wars/armed conflicts. > [@](#): > > The office workers tend to last longer than front line infantry. Many of the “office workers” deploy with front line infantry because they’re assigned all the way down to company/detachment level. > [@](#): > > And we also agree that an overwhelmingly larger percentage of men will be suited for this job compared to women? I’m not saying that NO women are qualified just the same as I am not saying that ALL men are qualified. If the general population is healthy, then there’s no reason that the women shouldn’t qualify just as the men. Seems to work for a few countries. > [@](#): > > I’m sure some 60 year old men would be qualified as well, but we don’t draft them because we don’t want to weed through thousands of old men to find the diamond in the rough, right? > > For the same reason, we shouldn’t draft women. And, again, call me old fashioned, but society that forces women to the front line instead of a man stepping up to take her place has failed at its basic duty according to our history and traditions. Flame away at this last paragraph, but at least address the ones before it. Are you seriously saying that “a women’s place is in the home”? ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/54 "2015-12-10T00:51:37Z")
I don’t think anyone should be drafted. But, until men have equal responsibility for giving birth to the next generation, I don’t think that women should be drafted. I think they should be equally considered for combat once they enlist, assuming they can achieve the same physical standards demanded of the men. Not all of them can (nor can all of the men). As long as only women can produce the next generation, things are not going to be completely fair. They can be fair in most other areas (although they’re not), but not this one. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/55 "2015-12-10T00:54:02Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > I don’t think anyone should be drafted. > > But, until men have equal responsibility for giving birth to the next generation, I don’t think that women should be drafted. By this logic, what about infertile women? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/56 "2015-12-10T01:11:39Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > But, until men have equal responsibility for giving birth to the next generation, I don’t think that women should be drafted. It is not any woman’s (or man’s) _responsibility_ to produce any portion of the next generation. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/57 "2015-12-10T01:19:58Z")
All I know is that I haven’t once produced a future generation without a man around. It seems they play a role in the process. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/58 "2015-12-10T05:19:54Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, we do not all understand that. Some of us, such as us veterans, are aware that draftees have been assigned to just about every MOS/AFSC/Rating in the military during wars/armed conflicts. Every single one? Generals and such? No, just the lesser ones. > [@Monty](#): > > Many of the “office workers” deploy with front line infantry because they’re assigned all the way down to company/detachment level. Your definition differs from mine. I think you know what I mean. > [@Monty](#): > > If the general population is healthy, then there’s no reason that the women shouldn’t qualify just as the men. Seems to work for a few countries. You need to define “healthy.” You are fighting the very clear observation I gave. > [@Monty](#): > > Are you seriously saying that “a women’s place is in the home”? I said absolutely no such fucking thing. If you are a man who lives with a woman, and someone’s life is on the line, as a man, you put yours up first. That is basic in our society. Do you dispute that? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/59 "2015-12-10T08:56:33Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If you are a man who lives with a woman, and someone’s life is on the line, as a man, you put yours up first. That is basic in our society. Do you dispute that? Is it a gender-equal society? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721/60 "2015-12-10T08:59:25Z")
Was it here or at [WW2F.com](http://WW2F.com) wherein people asserted that women shouldn’t expect to hang out with the SEAL’s at work? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-on-combat-lifted-women-registering-for-selective-service/729721.md?page=4)