Paraphrasing someone more elequent than me
A country in danger doesn’t need a draft to protect itself. If it is in danger and still needs a draft, then there is nothing worthwhile left to protect.
You pay taxes. You are already partially “enslaved.” Women need to be required to sign up if men are. Otherwise that’s institutional sexism.
I think it’s high time to abolish the draft; if we are going to have a giant military-industrial complex haring off to bomb some other country to rubble every few years, I’d rather it not be staffed by hastily-trained people who don’t want to be there.
The fact that the draft excludes women is the result of a bias against women, not against men. The original idea of excluding women from combat is based on your standard anti-woman sexism: women are weak and dependent, and therefore need to be protected and sheltered by men, and they do not have the mental and physical toughness required for combat positions. A lot of the so-called “privileges” that women are accused of having are predicated on a world-view in which women are innately and unavoidably fragile, helpless and incompetent; men have to do the hard and dangerous stuff because only they have the necessary capabilities. And then men are taught to stake their self-worth on being the protector and provider, which reinforces that world-view. So yes, sex restrictions on the draft are sexist, but not in the direction I think you mean.
From the majority opinion:
I suspect a new case would overturn the earlier ruling. Not just for the above, since I doubt it was the only reason for the ruling. But times have significantly changed since then, and I suspect that all 3 female justices would vote to overturn.
For now? No.
See, you have to understand WHO has been pushing to let women into combat. It isn’t ordinary enlisted women- they just want to make a living or save money for college.
It’s female OFFICERS who want to get into combat, because combat experience is very helpful if you want to get promoted.
So long as the ordinary females in the military don’t want combat, women won’t be drafted.
Women should definitely be subject to the draft to the same extent men are. I believe the “same extent” should be zero, but no matter what the number, it should be equal.
Eloquent doesn’t mean correct. This is one such case, unless you think the American Revolution, WW2, and the Civil War weren’t worth fighting.
Let me see if I understand. You think that a nation having a better human rights record can more easily get men (and women) to volunteer for its armed forces than a nation with a poor human rights record. Is that a fair implication to draw from your post? If so, do you have any evidence, or is this just wishful thinking?
Where and when?
Just because women have been approved for combat service only means that those women who are rather abnormally strong or otherwise fit will be suited for it. That does not mean that women from the general population would be similarly suited. Registering women would give the draft boards (if it is ever reenacted) a large pool of women to weed through who are unsuited for combat.
Keep registration (not a draft) but do not require women to register. This country should be ashamed if it forces a 19 year old petit girl go to boot camp. A man? Well, if it thinks a draft is needed, then us guys need to pony up. The necessity of the draft is one for the elected representatives.
In other words, gender inequality.
If women are to have the privileges of full citizenship then they should also have equal responsibilities. Anything less makes women second class citizens and lesser human beings.
“Petit” men who are drafted may well be rejected for simple lack of ability to do the job required, or assigned to duties which they are capable of doing. Likewise, women who are drafted would be assigned duties that fit their actual abilities. Due to biology you’ll have a lot fewer women qualifying for, example, infantry but it’s not like all men are capable of doing those jobs, either. You seem to presume the default state for men is “suitable for combat” but plenty aren’t. The military always has to screen draftees and weed out those unsuited. Heck, they have to do the same for volunteers as well.
I have long wondered why it is somehow more acceptable for a man to come back home in a box than a woman. Shouldn’t it be equally appalling for either gender? Aren’t they all equally human beings?
This is one of the counter-feminist memes that makes logical sense, not that you can use logic to defend against an emotional attack like feminism is. The argument is that if women want be considered equal to men, receiving equal benefits to men, it is unfair for them to get special treatment such as not being asked to register for the draft and face dying in wars. It is not equality at all if they get to have equal benefits without paying equal costs. Naturally, one argument people make is that feminists don’t care about equality - they just want more for women, with no limit to how much “more” is, and they get it by arguing inequality.
Requiring both men and women to registers for selective service and to be equally subject to a draft is not “counter-feminism”. It is, depending on how you look at it, either genuine feminism (the notion that women are equal to men, which is how the movement started and not as some emotional attack) or just simple fairness. People who were advocating for the Equal Rights Amendment back in the 1970’s were not fleeing from the implication that women might be drafted as a result, they simply acknowledged that it was a logical consequence of eliminating gender discrimination.
It is a tragedy that extremists have been able to derail what started as a movement for equality and made it equally sexist as societal defaults from 100 years ago.
My understanding is that the draft is just the first step – the draftee was evaluated for suitability, and only those deemed suitable actually went to war. Do you have a reason to believe that would not be the process in the future, regardless of gender?
Why should gender be the differentiator rather than suitability?
Cite that this is a feminist/not-feminist thing? I would guess that most feminists are anti-draft in general, but I’d be surprised if most feminists are arguing men should be drafted and women not.
I wonder whether we’d draft folks who happen to be pregnant.
Girls and women are neither helpless beings nor more precious than boys and men. With the ban on combat lifted, women should be held equally responsible as men to registering for and being selected in a draft, because women have just as much at stake. Can every woman succeed as a soldier? Of course not. But that is not the measure we use for anything else.
The draft is monstrous, but it should be equal opportunity monstrousness. Our laws should treat us equally, even if the law itself is a bad one.
Why not?
Of course, they would not have to report for boot camp/training/duty until after their baby is delivered and they have recovered from labor and delivery, but that’s simply a temporary deferment.
We should probably have some sort of rule that both parents in a family can’t be drafted, but which one gets picked should be random chance out of fairness. Women should no more be exempted for being a parent of a young child than a man should be.
The World According To Folacin’s Thoughts: The US got out of Vietnam in 1968 or thereabouts.
The World According To Actual Reality: Another theory down the drain.
Imagine my surprise.
Really, are they that annoying to have around?
As long as you’re wishing, would you like a pony?
-
You assume that success in war is not all that important, and thus can be left to random mokes off the street rather than dedicated professionals.
-
You assume that soldiering is somehow fundamentally different from any of the other tasks of civilization that are difficult, dirty, generally unpleasant, but nevertheless essential (e.g. firefighting, sewer maintenance, etc), all of which are left without question to volunteer labor and work just fine on that basis.
True, but almost as unrealistic as Folacin’s idea of a draft that actually touched the upper crust.