# Ban Single Use Plastic Bags?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [June 10, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357 "2009-06-10T17:38:56Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/81 "2009-06-12T19:48:47Z")
> [@wonderlust](#):
>
> I often wonder about collecting my trash in plastic garbage bags. Does the plastic prevent the contents from degrading in the landfill? Or am I right in assuming that the mastication by the garbage truck breaks them open and allows the contents to spill, then degrade?
they degrade over time releasing the contents. Every landfill produces methane regardless of whether it is raw garbage or bagged. Most of them are probably broken by the bulldozers as they go about the landfill process.
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### Author:  [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/82 "2009-06-12T23:28:44Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#):
>
> Word. There was no such thing as plastic bags at the grocery store back when I was a kid. Small brown paper bags for produce, large bags for groceries. They’ve become commonplace and convenient, but they’re not _necessary_ to our functional lives.
However, since I switched to reusuables I have to remember NOT to use the reusables from time to time - or I don’t have the PAPER bags in the house I need (I use them under mulch like other people use newspaper - I don’t get a newspaper).
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### Author:  [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/83 "2009-06-13T01:10:54Z")
Nino Salvaggio still offers paper, and I like them better and so choose them. Otherwise, I’m a fan of the plastic bags.
I see a lot of trash, and pigs that throw trash from their cars, but I don’t see a lot of plastic bags. I’m not even sure what the proposed mechanism for these rogue bags entering into the litter cycle really is. Are people just tossing them from their kitchen windows upon storing their groceries? Why aren’t cans and boxes a problem (this is the type of trash I do see).
It would take a pretty-high threshold for me to stop using plastic bags. At 10¢, I’d probably still go for the plastic bags (heck, I throw away my Michigan 10¢ bottles and cans, because it’s not worth 60¢ to stand in line, get my hands messy, and go through the filthy, disgusting process that government-forced deposits is).
I’m not convinced that there’s a bag problem, in short. However I’d not object to a bag tax if it didn’t inconvenience me (say, anything over 50¢ per bag?), and if it weren’t part of some stupid general fund that should be taxed elsewhere. Heck, I’d prefer to see it go to a non-profit than to a government coffer (now that I think of it, I’d support our stupid deposit law if the state didn’t keep the difference).
I do have a reusable bag that I use once per year when I’m dragged to Ikea! 😉
Finally, if it turns out that plastic bags really are a problem, I’d like to see the portion of the greater problem that they constitute. Taguchi rules and all. Why waste time with the insignificant factors?
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### Author:  [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/84 "2009-06-13T06:00:17Z")
One thing surprises me about the responses in this thread. Lots and lots of people talk about the plastic bags ending up in the trash, as if that were the only option. Every grocery store I’ve ever been to has a big bin for recycling the plastic bags. I almost never put one in the trash - only if I’ve used it for wrapping up something nasty. After unloading the groceries, the bags gets stuffed into a single bag on the closet floor. Every tenth trip to the store, or thereabouts, the bags go into the recycle bin.
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/85 "2009-06-13T06:35:51Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#):
>
> I tried using the cloth bags but I never once remembered them so they became beach bags or for other stuff. I would pay at least 10 cents per bag without even thinking about changing my habits just for the convenience of not having to remember the bags and carry them around the store while I’m shopping.
I agree completely. Like yourself, I never remember the “re-usable” bags, and really, 10c a bag would add up to well under $1 per visit even for a “large” shopping trip. And given that I re-use plastic bags for a variety of purposes, including rubbish bin liners, water-resistant covers for assignments/research notes in wet weather, and also as bowl coverings for salads and things in the fridge, it’s money well spent, IMHO.
The re-usable bags seem to start disintegrating fairly quickly here, too- the green ones you get from the supermarket shed green… something all over the place, especially if they spend too much time exposed to sunlight.
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### Author:  [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/86 "2009-06-13T06:43:50Z")
I’d just like to challenge anyone who doesn’t think plastic bags are a problem to spend some time doing litter clean-up along the highways, streams and rivers, and in state and national parks. As someone who volunteers regularly, I can say with certainty, plastic bags are ubiquitous as litter goes. Along with plastic bottles, I’d say they’re up there at the top of the list of items most frequently seen. Quite often they are full of trash having been dumped. The rest of the time they’re empty and stuck in shrubs, trees, roots, etc.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2009, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/87 "2009-06-13T07:01:42Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#):
>
> I’d just like to challenge anyone who doesn’t think plastic bags are a problem to spend some time doing litter clean-up along the highways, streams and rivers, and in state and national parks. As someone who volunteers regularly, I can say with certainty, plastic bags are ubiquitous as litter goes. Along with plastic bottles, I’d say they’re up there at the top of the list of items most frequently seen. Quite often they are full of trash having been dumped. The rest of the time they’re empty and stuck in shrubs, trees, roots, etc.
trash is a pet peave of mine and I don’t see what you’re seeing. I do a lot of biking and hiking. Maybe there are forest gnomes in your area who shop at Wal Mart but I’m not seeing it. This is an item that goes from the store to a home and then the trash. There is no mechanism, barring a trash dump, that would actively release these to a point where they’re a problem.
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/88 "2009-06-13T07:17:19Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#):
>
> I’d just like to challenge anyone who doesn’t think plastic bags are a problem to spend some time doing litter clean-up along the highways, streams and rivers, and in state and national parks. As someone who volunteers regularly, I can say with certainty, plastic bags are ubiquitous as litter goes. Along with plastic bottles, I’d say they’re up there at the top of the list of items most frequently seen. Quite often they are full of trash having been dumped. The rest of the time they’re empty and stuck in shrubs, trees, roots, etc.
I spend a fair bit of time in the outdoors and I hardly see any plastic bags at all. I don’t think I’ve seen any blowing along the streets here, either. I really don’t think they’re the environmental problem the Greenies keep making them out to be.
Plastic drink bottles and aluminium cans are another matter entirely, of course.
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### Author:  [@khere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/khere)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2009, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/89 "2009-06-13T07:22:17Z")
Well, South Australia, where I live, is the ‘trial state’ in Australia for the plastic bag ban. It’s been in effect since early May this year, with many retailers individually implementing bans earlier than that to get customers accustomed to the practice of bringing their own bags.
What has been the effect on the consumer?
To be honest, it’s not so crazy different, mainly because not all plastic bags are banned. Plastic bags have been categorised in 3 ways - there are the heavier, ‘boutique’-style bag that you might get from Myer, for example; the most common light-weight ‘one-use’ bags (yes, I know they are often not one-use) and the flimsier ‘produce’ bags for your beans, grapes etc. The boutique and produce bags still prevail, it’s only the 2nd category that are banned. Obviously you can still buy the bags designed to be bin-liners or poop-scoopers.
Supermarkets sell re-usable ‘green bags’ for around a dollar. The general idea is to buy a few and bring them along every time you go grocery shopping, or pay up for more as you need them in-store. Places like Target have gotten around the ban by issuing small but \*slightly \*heavier (obviously enough to be classed as ‘boutique’) plastic bags for 10c.
I have also heard/experienced:
- Claims that the ban is reducing impulse buying in the shopping centre, because people who duck in to get just a couple of items and don’t have their own bags just buy what they originally came for, or what they can carry, rather than getting tempted by the option to buy more (of course, green bags are availabe to buy at any outlet that you would need them, but many people who already have stacks of them in the back of the car or at home refuse to buy more on principle).
- There were quite a lot of ads and public reminders before the ban, and like I said, many stores began phasing plastic bags out before it was officially implemented (e.g. supermarkets banning them just in the express lane first) so it’s not like people were taken by surprise. During the first few weeks of the ban, check-out operators wore little badges saying ‘Don’t Bag Me!’ (lame) (aussie slang equivalent to something like , ‘don’t insult/deride me’) in an attempt to prevent customers abusing store staff. I haven’t seen many angry customers, although I don’t doubt that there were some. More common were the people trying their luck at getting the bagger to make an exception just for them, with no success.
- There has been concern about the hygiene of multi-use bags, with people using the same bag to buy fruit as they put leaking meat juices in last week, for example. Ads on tv suggest remembering to consistently use ‘different colour!’ bags to prevent cross-contamination. On a different end of the spectrum to those who buy new bags every time they go shopping are those more unsavoury characters who use the same bag for _everything_ in life, never washing it, and there has been concern about check out operators having to touch and pack these bags. I guess we hope that common sense and hygiene standards will prevail once people get used to the ban. To be honest the people who are blatantly unhygienic with their re-usable bags are probably unhygienic in other aspects of life too, so I don’t think re-usable bags pose the huge public health risk that some have been arguing.
As to the effect on the environment? Obviously it’s far too early to tell. At this stage people on the whole haven’t been very efficient with their multi-use bags, accumulating many and still forgetting to bring them on shopping trips, which isn’t exactly great for the environment either (I believe the standard ‘green bag’ is still made out of some plastic). But I think there is improvement in this regard, as people’s habits slowly change - after all, you’ve got to stop accumulating bags at some point, right?
If anything, I think we could be more extreme in the ban, and perhaps we will eventually move to that point - for all the cry previous to May about the dire inconvenience that would occur, it’s really not that different at all. It’s not like plastic bags are completely _unattainable_. The main effect is that people just have to be a little more organised, which I’m sure is not a bad thing.
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### Author:  [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2009, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/90 "2009-06-13T08:00:25Z")
> [@brad\_d](#):
>
> The hard part for me is remembering to take them with me when I go to the store.
I had that problem too, untill I hung up [one](http://www.organizeit.com/pobagrecycler.asp) [of](http://www.organizeit.com/pobagdispenser.asp) [these](http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60025535) near my back door in the kitchen. Now, after unpacking my groceries, I dump the bag in there; and when I go out to buy groceries, I take a bag from it. That system works well for us.
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### Author:  [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2009, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/91 "2009-06-13T08:06:39Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#):
>
> I use them for dead squirrels and chipmunks. Once every couple of weeks I have to send one of the kids to the pool on “Squirrel detail” with plastic bags in hand.
You mean squirrels and chipmuncks drown (in a full pool) or starve (in an empty pool?). What a sad thing for your kids to have to do, and sad for the squirrel families losing mom mid-season, too. Why not make a simple ramp in the pool’s side? Any wooden plank or rod, fastened to the side with a rope, should do.
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### Author:  [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/92 "2009-06-13T17:46:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> trash is a pet peave of mine and I don’t see what you’re seeing. I do a lot of biking and hiking. Maybe there are forest gnomes in your area who shop at Wal Mart but I’m not seeing it. This is an item that goes from the store to a home and then the trash. There is no mechanism, barring a trash dump, that would actively release these to a point where they’re a problem.
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield]
I spend a fair bit of time in the outdoors and I hardly see any plastic bags at all. I don’t think I’ve seen any blowing along the streets here, either. I really don’t think they’re the environmental problem the Greenies keep making them out to be.
[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry, but “I spend a lot of time outdoors” is a weak reply to “I actually spend time outdoors picking up litter.” Let me know what you find when you actually start looking at and interacting with it. I can honestly say that although I’d \*noticed _litter while out recreating outdoors, I never realized what I wasn’t seeing until I started to clean it up. Once you become attuned to noticing it, you see a lot more._
\*Like my job, now that I sell shoes, I notice what people are wearing a lot more, in meatspace, as well as in movies and TV.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/93 "2009-06-14T01:25:04Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#):
>
> I’m sorry, but “I spend a lot of time outdoors” is a weak reply to “I actually spend time outdoors picking up litter.” Let me know what you find when you actually start looking at and interacting with it. I can honestly say that although I’d \*noticed _litter while out recreating outdoors, I never realized what I wasn’t seeing until I started to clean it up. Once you become attuned to noticing it, you see a lot more._
I disagree. I actively look for trash and will pick it up when I’m hiking or biking. I’m around rivers, railroad beds, old buildings and just about anywhere there’s history to research. There is no way in hell you log as many miles as I do poking around the countryside. I find lots of other types of trash, but few plastic bags.
In order for shopping bags to get into the environment there has to be a mechanism for it. Fast food wrappers are purchased and thrown out car windows or left at parks. Same with the old style aluminum pull tabs. People don’t buy groceries and throw the bags out as they’re driving. It’s a very limited trash problem.
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### Author:  [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/94 "2009-06-14T02:35:21Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#):
>
> Without them, I would be unable to freeze breastmilk in amounts sufficient for day care. Until we get a year of maternity leave in the US, I’m using my plastic bags, thanks. I make up for it by using, and recycling, paper grocery bags instead of plastic.
You’re freezing your breastmilk in grocery bags? If not, you’re not using the sorts of bags that are being banned.
> [@Dangerosa](#):
>
> However, since I switched to reusuables I have to remember NOT to use the reusables from time to time - or I don’t have the PAPER bags in the house I need (I use them under mulch like other people use newspaper - I don’t get a newspaper).
Wouldn’t it just be easier to get one of those freebie community papers or ask a neighbor for yesterday’s classifieds when you need some newspaper?
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/95 "2009-06-14T03:02:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> In order for shopping bags to get into the environment there has to be a mechanism for it. Fast food wrappers are purchased and thrown out car windows or left at parks. Same with the old style aluminum pull tabs. People don’t buy groceries and throw the bags out as they’re driving. It’s a very limited trash problem.
This is true. (Selfish, stupid) people throw fast food wrappers and empty drink bottles out of car windows or just drop them on the ground when they’re out. Plastic bags go from the supermarket to the car boot to the kitchen, then either into the rubbish bin or get re-used around the house before going into the rubbish.
As **Magiver** says, there’s just no opportunity for them to end up in The Wild for the most part.
That doesn’t mean there are no plastic bags floating around in The Wild, but I still refute the Greenie claim that it’s a major problem that needs to be dealt with RIGHT THIS VERY INSTANT before we become overwhelmed by these latter-day Tribbles.
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### Author:  [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/96 "2009-06-14T03:03:13Z")
**Magiver** , I’m in Columbus, not terribly far from your stated location of Dayton, and I see the dang things all over the place. They’re not lining the streets, of course, but if I make a point of paying attention as I drive to my kids’ preschool or the grocery store or wherever, I’m bound to see several blowing along the roadway, or occasionally caught in tree branches or whatnot.
It’s not that people are deliberately throwing them outside; they’re just really lightweight and they tend to blow off the top of trash cans and out of garbage trucks and whatnot. I have seen this happen when driving behind a garbage truck. And I have no idea how you get one down out of a tree once it’s stuck up in the high branches. I see them fluttering up there from time to time. It’s annoying.
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### Author:  [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/97 "2009-06-14T03:11:38Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#):
>
> I still refute the Greenie claim that it’s a major problem that needs to be dealt with RIGHT THIS VERY INSTANT before we become overwhelmed by these latter-day Tribbles.
Does a problem have to be overwhelming and unmanageable before it’s dealt with? Isn’t the fact that plastic bags aren’t a problem in some places a good reason to work to keep it that way for those places, and try to reverse the trend in others? (Leaving alone the resources issues involved.)
I don’t get it. It’s like saying “well, I understand that you have a softball sized tumor, but I don’t have cancer yet so I don’t think we need to actively pursue more effective treatments.”
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/98 "2009-06-14T03:38:37Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#):
>
> **Magiver** , I’m in Columbus, not terribly far from your stated location of Dayton, and I see the dang things all over the place. They’re not lining the streets, of course, but if I make a point of paying attention as I drive to my kids’ preschool or the grocery store or wherever, I’m bound to see several blowing along the roadway, or occasionally caught in tree branches or whatnot.
>
> It’s not that people are deliberately throwing them outside; they’re just really lightweight and they tend to blow off the top of trash cans and out of garbage trucks and whatnot. I have seen this happen when driving behind a garbage truck. And I have no idea how you get one down out of a tree once it’s stuck up in the high branches. I see them fluttering up there from time to time. It’s annoying.
Just visted your zoo and surounding area this very fine day. Didn’t see a single one. if they’re such a global disaster, you’d think they would be everywhere. They’re not.
I agree that they can blow around and get stuck in trees because they are so light. I just don’t SEE THEM. In the last 15 years I found 1 in my neighborhood. This is in contrast to the ton of other crap I’ve picked up after the waste people have been through. If everbody is using them, and they’re so darn likelly to fly away, I would expect to see them all over the place.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/99 "2009-06-14T03:47:20Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#):
>
> Does a problem have to be overwhelming and unmanageable before it’s dealt with? Isn’t the fact that plastic bags aren’t a problem in some places a good reason to work to keep it that way for those places, and try to reverse the trend in others? (Leaving alone the resources issues involved.)
>
> I don’t get it. It’s like saying “well, I understand that you have a softball sized tumor, but I don’t have cancer yet so I don’t think we need to actively pursue more effective treatments.”
In China, where the dumbasses burn their trash in open pits and it caused a problem, they were banned. Tumor removed, rest of world saved from unnecessary surgery.
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ban-single-use-plastic-bags/499357/100 "2009-06-14T04:25:05Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#):
>
> Does a problem have to be overwhelming and unmanageable before it’s dealt with?
Sometimes, yes, IMHO.
> [@](#):
>
> Isn’t the fact that plastic bags aren’t a problem in some places a good reason to work to keep it that way for those places, and try to reverse the trend in others? (Leaving alone the resources issues involved.)
Nope. It’s a good reason to work on it in those places, but ONLY those places. If the residents of Messville are knee-deep in plastic bags, then I can understand a 20c charge per bag to discourage their use. But why should their neighbours in Cleanborough also have to pay a 20c fee when they have no problem at all with plastic bags?
> [@](#):
>
> I don’t get it. It’s like saying “well, I understand that you have a softball sized tumor, but I don’t have cancer yet so I don’t think we need to actively pursue more effective treatments.”
No, it’s not. It’s nothing like that at all. 😕
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