Well, what can I say? You must live in a pristine environment. Lucky you! I hope it stays that way for you. If you don’t see it, there’s not much I can impress upon you that it’s a problem. Google it perhaps and look at some images and video. It’s not like those are fake. Here’s an article that talks about the environmental impact and includes a video about how plastic bags (in general, not just the ubiquitous shopping bag) are throwing a wrench into recycling efforts.
As far as I can see, they’re everywhere. I just drove to work tonight and tried counting the ones I see along the highway. I lost count somewhere in the high teens and only a couple miles into my 17 mile drive. I don’t live in an especially dirty area either. I would say that Cincinnati was much worse as far as litter goes. But the interstates, I think, are especially bad. And they have clean-up crews.
As far as how they get into the environment, I think the fact that they blow around so easily is a big factor. The other thing I’ve noticed is that people do tend to reuse the bags (which is good) because they are lightweight and easy to stash and that sends them back out into the environment (which is bad when they end up as litter). Somehow, they manage to get out there in significant quantities. It’s hard for me to look at them and explain how they get there, except when it’s an obvious illegal dumping. But they’re there. I’m simply reporting that the largest percentages of litter I pick up are plastic bottles and plastic bags. There’s a lot of other stuff too, but nothing that sticks out quite like those two items. Well, cigarette butts, too, but that’s more along roadways.
Some areas are obviously more effected than others; for some, it looks like it is a pretty serious ecological crisis. The important thing is recognizing it before it becomes a crisis on a much larger scale and implementing a solution.
It’s a very limited trash problem in your minuscule corner of the planet. That’s like saying you are against the ban on land mines because you’ve never come upon a land mine while hiking.
Plastic bags are a HUGE problem across the vast majority of the planet. Now, maybe the UN could just institute this ban in developing countries- where a lack of proper waste disposal, ultra low-quality bags, and a huge bagging culture- make it a massive problem. But that hardly seems fair, does it?
Why a government ban? Because it works. Several governments have noticed this is a problem on their own and gone through the effort to solve it. And it has worked for those countries. But there are plenty of governments who don’t really care about their environment and their citizens (for example, Cameroon.) A UN ban would presumably motivate these countries to do something about the problem.
Anyway, a ban has absolutely no real effect on your life. They are not banning bags, they are banning giving them away automatically. You can still buy bags for an amount of money that is so small it is pretty much symbolic. But, I think you’ll find that you rarely need to do that, since you don’t really need a bag for most small purchases, and it’s easy enough to keep re-usable bags for larger shopping trips. I’m speaking as someone living in a bag-ban country. It’s really, super, absolutely not something one even thinks about it once one has had a couple weeks to adjust to it.
What’s not fair about it? Seems perfectly logical to me. Why should I suffer because some backward country burns trash in open pits? Forget the fact that BURNING TRASH is a much bigger problem.
The UN can’t ban anything. It’s a toothless organization charted to employ people for the express purpose of illegally parking in New York.
Come on guys, do you really want to behind freaking China on an environmental issue?
OK, we’ll make a special exception for your amazingly trashless town. Happy?
As for “backwards countries”. a week’s worth of trash is worth maybe a half-day in America. All containers are re-used, all food waste is composted and there are no consumer goods so there is no packaging. The trash pile consists pretty much entirely of burnt out cooking pots, holey flip-flop soles, and plastic bags.
I’m not sure what you expect a “backwards” country to do. There are no landfills. Even if there were, a large truck could not navigate the dirt motorcycle roads between villages. There are barely any police and school teachers, much less garbage men. But local officials and traditional leaders would be able to enforce a bag ban.
Have you ever lived anywhere where the UN does work? I’m guessing it’s been a while since you’ve had to live in a refugee camp. Anyway, the countries with the biggest problems are also major recipients of UN aid.
Forgive me, but you strike me as a person whose understanding of the world extends about two feet in front of your face.
Since I’ve gotten my DSLR, I’ve noticed other people with DSLR’s. Doesn’t mean there are a lot of DSLR’s out there; just means I notice them more. Same as being a garbage cleaner (thanks for doing that, by the way).
Does a problem have to be widespread before we address it? Sure as hell. Bang for the buck. Taguchi rules. Go after the big problems first. Just because you see a couple of bags in the gutter, and it offends you, doesn’t mean there’s an dire problem. By some calculations, you’d be better off offering to check air pressure for all customers as a gas station, and topping off their tires.
Well, that wouldn’t directly serve my ulterior motive of being able to enjoy the outdoors devoid of trash. I’m not *just *a greenie, I’m selfishly tidying up my environment. You’re welcome, but my motives are more than altruistic.
I prefer not to wait until the environment I play in looks like this, so yeah I think it’s more efficient to nip the problem in the bud before it becomes widespread and unmanageable. Right now, in my experience, plastics, particularly bags and bottles since I see them more than anything else, are the bane of a healthy environment. As soon as society can find a way to function with less plastics and eliminate the disposable mentality that is leading to excessive waste production, we’ll be a lot better off in the very near future.
We’ve all got our pet causes. If yours is bigger than mine, well, best of luck making a difference. I mean that sincerely, too.
Good Lord, are you breathing the fumes from the open-pit-trash-burning in China? They couldn’t get any further from environmental issues if they tried. They had to vacuum up the ocean coast line and stop all the surrounding industry during the Olympics.
Read. I said “an” environmental issue. Singular. Trust me, I am made intimately and uncomfortably aware of the environmental issues in China on a daily basis. Which is why it’s kind of embarrassing that they realized plastic-bag-free-for-alls were an issue and did something about it while we are still sitting here with our fingers in our ears saying “La la la can’t hear you!”
So, what’s your point? Litter moves. And, how can you tell? Can’t see what it’s the water or buried in the mud. Bottles sit on top because they float better. Bags get snagged on stuff or free float through the water until they sink. There’s very likely bags there.
That picture is only one of many, manyexamples of litter. It’s ugly. I could postimagesoflitteralldaylong, I shouldn’t need to. I’m telling you, by experience, it’s bad. Some places are worse than others, clearly. I’m telling that I pick up a lot of plastic bags. More than anything other one thing, except plastic bottles. I’m saying that I don’t want to live/work/play in an environment that looks like that (or any of these) picture(s).
And banning plastic bags would help this how? People who will throw trash out the window, or dump a bag of it on the side of the highway, will not be affected by a bag ban.
We shouldn’t deal with the problem by banning a perfectly useful item that gets re-used many times by lots of people. That’s efficent - I can’t think of any other packaging or carrying item that I re-use as much as a plastic bag.
We need to educate and prosecute about litter. You’re right - litter is ugly and a terrible thing to have to look at. But the solution is not banning things - the littering scum will just throw the next thing on the ground.
I don’t know if you noticed this up above, but I mentioned earlier I’m not in favor of banning them outright. I am in favor of charging a fee to consumers for using them as there are already much better alternatives to the disposable plastic shopper bags. I am also in favor of mandating a switch to compostable plastic shopper bags as I feel that will have a greater impact on the litter that is going to continue to exist as well as organized waste management.
The problem with litter will, I’m sad to say, never go away, so while I agree that education and prosecution with regard to litter is positive, it may be more worthwhile in the long run to phase out consumer availability of disposable items that don’t biodegrade or photodegrade once they enter the waste stream.
For those who are complaining that they’re always forgetting to bring their own bag: keep it in the car. Empty your bags after you go shop, then take thirty seconds to a minute to go put the bag back in the car. Problem solved.
To those complaining about the flimsiness of the non-plastic reusable bags: so use your own damn bag. The device you use to carry groceries does not need to be branded by a grocery store. Go up to Target, buy yourself a nice big tote or backpack. Even better, go to llbean.com, put down twenty bucks, and you can get a nice big tote which will last approximately forever (and if it doesn’t, return it and they’ll send you a new one).
The issue of using non-plastic bags is really not as complicated as some of you seem to think it is.
I can’t believe that I have read the whole thread so far and not come to the reason why banning plastic bags annoys me so much.
When I get home with my groceries, I usually have more plastic in the <i>packaging</i> for my food (think clam shells for berries, plastic bags on pasta or rice) that is not recyclable then are in the 5 bags or so I just bought. However, I am paying for the bags but no one is taking aim at the people who package my food.
Not really. If we forget to take the bags from home, we’re also going to forget they’re in the car boot, so we’re still going to be standing in the checkout aisle and suddenly think “Oh bollocks, I left my bag in the car.” Fortunately, they still give you free plastic bags here. So, I don’t have to cart about a bag I’ll never remember to use in my boot, and I get some neat re-usable plastic bags!
See above. And I am not buying a “special” bag with a price tag in double digits for my shopping. Especially not one that’s just going to stay in the boot of the car.
In case you hadn’t noticed, rather a lot of us- myself included- want plastic bags because we can re-use them. That and I just hate being told what to do by Greenies when it’s not in my immediate interest. (Which is why I don’t litter, for example.)
Sure they are, there is a strong move toward limiting packaging and making sure that all packaging is recyclable and/or made from recycled materials. Do you not have a robust municipal recycling plan available to you? Because most food-safe plastic is fairly easily recyclable.
So at least you admit that your entire perspective is based on what is most convenient to you, not what is best for your community. There is a word for that…
Wait - did my town/county/state/country take a vote and decide that plastic bags were bad? I don’t seem to recall that on my ballot.
Just because you and a group of people have decided that plastic bags are a major problem, it doesn’t mean that the bags **are **a major problem. And I don’t recall seeing your resume…why should I assume that you know what’s best for your community?
I say we let the market sort it out. Re-useable totes have been making super inroads with the buying public. I don’t like the flimsy bags that are offered, and am not interested in spending $20 for one sturdy bag - 'cause I’ll need about 6 of them. Since I don’t have $120 dollars to spend on that right now, I’ll keep using my brown paper and thin plastic.
But (and this is the beauty part) some smart person out there will recognize the change in habits, see a lack of affordable big sturdy bags, and find a way to chisel in a market niche. So, I get my type of bag at a price I can afford, the seller makes a profit, and you’re happy with having one less user of thin plastic.
But, this leads us back to…I’ll just have to purchase thin, cheap plastic bags to replace the ones I used to get from the store…
What is best for my community is for the Greenies to fuck off and keep their mouths shut on non-issues like this one.
Do you know how many plastic bags there are blowing around the streets here? I’ll give you a hint: None at all. Perhaps you have the misfortune to live in the messiest part of a Civilised Western Country? Almost no-one else in this thread seems to have the same experience with plastic bags roaming around the countryside saying “Ni” to passing old ladies at will as you do.
Plastic bags are not an issue in my community. It’s obviously different where you are. And good on you for fixing a problem in your community. But don’t start lecturing other communities- who don’t have the problem you’re trying to fix- on what they should be doing.
If you want to spend hundreds of dollars on reusable bags to give yourself a warm fuzzy feeling about the environment, go ahead. But don’t expect the rest of us to join in. Incidentally, assuming six plastic bags per trip to the supermarket, 10c a bag, and 52 shopping trips per year, it would take nearly four years worth of shopping trips to “break even” on the cost of the six $20 re-usable bags against the cost of just paying for plastic bags at the supermarket each time you go.
And human nature being what it is, most people are eventually going to lose or break some of those re-usable bags before the four years is up, meaning they have to buy new ones, further skewing the cost/benefit analysis.
In short, for 95% of people, plastic bags are cheap, effective, and useful, whilst the re-usable bags are expensive, less effective, and likely to end up being left in the cupboard or boot of the car instead of being used for carrying groceries.
I don’t know who pays $20 for reuseable grocery bags. I got most of mine for $1, except for the insulated one I bought from Trader Joe’s to put all my cold groceries in. I think I paid $10 for that one, but it’s totally worth it in the summer.
As for leaving them in your car, fercrissakes, it’s not that much effort to go back out to get them, is it? Sheesh!
In any case, as long as I’m picking up other people’s trash, I’m not going to shut the fuck up, but thanks for the suggestion.
