# Band of Brothers--Airborne in WWII purpose **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 24, 2019, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947 "2019-06-24T03:21:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/41 "2019-06-26T04:41:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It’s a reference to [the best show ever.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGknlEWjxZc) > You guys have been missing out. [Moderating] I’ve seen _The Wire_, as have many other posters, and it’s a great show, but that’s still no excuse for posting a random bit of dialog from 17 years ago that’s a complete non sequitur with regard to the subject of this thread. You don’t really need to post whatever pops into your head, especially when it contains offensive terms (and even though the dialogue is spoken by black characters on the show, it’s still offensive when taken out of context). Just because something is a quote from a movie, TV show, or book doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to post. Try to use better judgement in the future. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/42 "2019-06-26T05:22:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Moderating] > > I’ve seen _The Wire_, as have many other posters, and it’s a great show, but that’s still no excuse for posting a random bit of dialog from 17 years ago that’s a complete non sequitur with regard to the subject of this thread. You don’t really need to post whatever pops into your head, especially when it contains offensive terms (and even though the dialogue is spoken by black characters on the show, it’s still offensive when taken out of context). Just because something is a quote from a movie, TV show, or book doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to post. Try to use better judgement in the future. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator _shrug_ I thought it was a pretty amusing sequitur to someone bringing up that some NCO had a fantastic idea that probably saved a whole lot of lives (because, speaking as a veteran pixelgeneral, fuck hedgerows forever) ; and another someone expecting that NCO to have been rewarded for their ingenuity - because the Army doesn’t typically work that way. Hence the bit. All the more justified considering **silenus** ’ cite of what happened - to whit, Curtis G. Culin still working in the basement at US Army, so to speak. Maybe not in GQ, and certainly not before the question had been answered in earnest, I’ll cop to that. But I’m funny and I’m topical, damn you. You won’t take that from me ! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/43 "2019-06-26T06:00:58Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > It was a waste because they were losing elite specialists on missions that could be done by regular troops. And in many ways done better by standard infantry who were more heavily equipped than the rangers who were supposed to make fast, daring raids instead of slugging it out on the line. But again, if there’s no mission requiring elite specialists, and they happen to be infantry which is what’s needed ; and they’re at or around the spot where you really need some infantry, it’s not really a waste. It’s just using what you’ve got on hand. It might be a waste of potential to use a Ferrari for your daily commute because you could win street races with it or somesuch ; but if what you need to do is go from point A to point B and back again and you happen to own a Ferrari, why not use it ? Are you arguing that in that hypo, the correct and not wasteful decision would be to buy another car to commute with ? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/44 "2019-06-26T07:42:51Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > _shrug_ I thought it was a pretty amusing sequitur to someone bringing up that some NCO had a fantastic idea that probably saved a whole lot of lives (because, speaking as a veteran pixelgeneral, fuck hedgerows forever) ; and another someone expecting that NCO to have been rewarded for their ingenuity - because the Army doesn’t typically work that way. Hence the bit. All the more justified considering **silenus** ’ cite of what happened - to whit, Curtis G. Culin still working in the basement at US Army, so to speak. > Maybe not in GQ, and certainly not before the question had been answered in earnest, I’ll cop to that. But I’m funny and I’m topical, damn you. You won’t take that from me ! At the very least, you could keep your version short and just link to the video. I think that would have conveyed your intended comedic affect while not offending or confusing everyone. Just a thought; Im not a mod, and my opinion doesnt really mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/45 "2019-06-26T13:02:43Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > _The invention of a hedge-breaching device is generally credited to Curtis G. Culin, a sergeant in the 2nd Armored Division’s 102nd Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron. However, military historian Max Hastings notes that Culin was inspired by “a Tennessee hillbilly named Roberts”,[6] who during a discussion about how to overcome the bocage, said “Why don’t we get some saw teeth and put them on the front of the tank and cut through these hedges?” Rather than joining in the laughter that greeted this remark, Culin recognized the idea’s potential.[6] A prototype tusk-like assembly was created by welding steel scrap (from destroyed “Czech hedgehogs”) to the front of a tank to create a hedge cutter. The teeth helped prevent the vulnerable underside of the tank from being exposed while it knocked a hole in the hedgerow wall.[11][6] On 14 July, Lieutenant General Omar Bradley inspected the tank[11] and “watched in awe as a hedgerow exploded … to make way for the Sherman bursting through”.[6] According to Hastings, Culin, “an honest man”, attempted to give credit to Roberts, but this was forgotten in the publicity surrounding the invention. Hastings concludes: “[Culin] became a very American kind of national hero”.[6]_ Thanks, silenus, I missed your post the first time around, and pulled Curtis G. Culin out of a Google search, and the name sounded familiar. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/46 "2019-06-26T14:37:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > But again, if there’s no mission requiring elite specialists, and they happen to be infantry which is what’s needed ; and they’re at or around the spot where you really need some infantry, it’s not really a waste. It’s just using what you’ve got on hand. > > It might be a waste of potential to use a Ferrari for your daily commute because you could win street races with it or somesuch ; but if what you need to do is go from point A to point B and back again and you happen to own a Ferrari, why not use it ? Are you arguing that in that hypo, the correct and not wasteful decision would be to buy another car to commute with ? It’s still a waste of good material even if it’s forced on you by circumstances. But in general, the high command used rangers for general line work even when it was not necessary. They often just saw the Rangers as superior infantry and used them as such when they could and should have saved them for special missions or even try to develop tactics that would play to the rangers’ strengths instead of throwing them into a meat grinder for which they were not well equipped. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/47 "2019-06-26T21:00:04Z")
Really, it was a waste to throw _anyone_ into those meat grinders. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/48 "2019-06-26T23:12:49Z")
Well, the war had to be won. It’s easy to say “they should have held back the paratroopers/Rangers for other missions” but that’s not consistent with the reality on the ground. Casualty rates in western Europe were VERY high; men were killed and wounded at quite an alarming rate. Units were becoming rapidly exhausted of fresh men. There was very little room to pick and choose the units being used to plug the lines and exploit opportunities. I am sure many of you have heard of Eddie Slovik, the only U.S. soldier shot for desertion in WWII. One of the reasons his sentence was carried out (many other men were sentenced to death for desertion, but none carried out) is that in that time and place - November 1944 - the U.S. army was incredibly exhausted, casualties were very high, and Slovik’s superiors were concerned about how other soldiers serving on the front line would take it if Slovik was spared and, in effect, was allowed to do what he’d sought to do - avoid combat. At that stage in the war, furthermore, you wouldn’t even know if the opportunity would ever exist to use rangers and paratroopers for their designed purpose. In discussions about WWII it is so often the case that we look back and assume those people were stupid and we know so much better. In truth, 99.9% of the time, the amateur historian’s wrong, and the people then and there knew what they were doing and made the right calls, at least as far as it was reasonably possible to make them under the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/49 "2019-06-27T00:38:48Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > You can see in this link battle casualties per US Army division in WWII. Cool. Thanks. I looked for the casualty piece, not just the struggle to replace them, but just for the Normandy campaign. The best I found was for the British who had similar experiences. The numbers for the entire European campaign give a pretty good idea …and beats my searches that focused on the D-Day landings. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder if this guy got a promotion or a medal or a pat on the back. He received a Legion of Merit. ([Cite](https://www.nytimes.com/1964/06/06/archives/eisenhower-hails-gl-for-tank-idea-dday-paratroopers-drop-on-steeple.html)) > [@Chronos](#): > > Really, it was a waste to throw _anyone_ into those meat grinders. We tend to Godwinize a lot of things nowadays but this was literally about stopping Hitler. The Germans fought well and hard on terrain well suited to the defense. We potentially could have chosen an invasion sight that presented a lot more risk of failed landings in exchange for easier terrain if the landing was successful. Most of the US forces engaged had been civilians when the war started. In Normandy most of them were in combat for the first time. I’m not seeing a clearly better option. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/50 "2019-06-27T13:33:47Z")
Thanks, DinoR. I thought Steele was 101st. ---
**Author:** ![Limmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Limmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Limmin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/51 "2019-06-27T18:11:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, the war had to be won. > > … > > At that stage in the war, furthermore, you wouldn’t even know if the opportunity would ever exist to use rangers and paratroopers for their designed purpose. > > In discussions about WWII it is so often the case that we look back and assume those people were stupid and we know so much better. In truth, 99.9% of the time, the amateur historian’s wrong, and the people then and there knew what they were doing and made the right calls, at least as far as it was reasonably possible to make them under the circumstances. I endorse this post. At the time, nobody was 100% sure we would win or be splut while trying to do so. Saving your best troops for “an even more dire situation” was probably hard to imagine, seeing as dire situations were continually happening. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/52 "2019-06-27T19:51:09Z")
The Battle of the Bulge and Bastogne in particular was incredibly desperate for the Allies. So in Bastogne they took every soldier of any type: cooks, drivers, etc. and sent them out with a rifle and a helmet to fight. The idea of holding back the 82nd at such an important battle merely because they were elite is ridiculous. Now, throwing troops of any sort into secondary efforts like the [Hürtgen Forest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_H%C3%BCrtgen_Forest) are something else. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/53 "2019-06-27T21:28:40Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > It was a waste because they were losing elite specialists on missions that could be done by regular troops. And in many ways done better by standard infantry who were more heavily equipped than the rangers who were supposed to make fast, daring raids instead of slugging it out on the line. This was sort of the spirit in which my question was asked. Of course, things are dramatized on television, but it seemed like these guys were in the meat grinder an awful lot and they were told to do raids and whatnot that seemed to me, a guy who knows nothing about military tactics, or just enough to be dangerous, that it would be better for these guys to hold their positions and let the main infantry come in and clean up. > [@RickJay](#): > > Well, the war had to be won. > > It’s easy to say “they should have held back the paratroopers/Rangers for other missions” but that’s not consistent with the reality on the ground. Casualty rates in western Europe were VERY high; men were killed and wounded at quite an alarming rate. Units were becoming rapidly exhausted of fresh men. There was very little room to pick and choose the units being used to plug the lines and exploit opportunities. > > I am sure many of you have heard of Eddie Slovik, the only U.S. soldier shot for desertion in WWII. One of the reasons his sentence was carried out (many other men were sentenced to death for desertion, but none carried out) is that in that time and place - November 1944 - the U.S. army was incredibly exhausted, casualties were very high, and Slovik’s superiors were concerned about how other soldiers serving on the front line would take it if Slovik was spared and, in effect, was allowed to do what he’d sought to do - avoid combat. > > At that stage in the war, furthermore, you wouldn’t even know if the opportunity would ever exist to use rangers and paratroopers for their designed purpose. > > In discussions about WWII it is so often the case that we look back and assume those people were stupid and we know so much better. In truth, 99.9% of the time, the amateur historian’s wrong, and the people then and there knew what they were doing and made the right calls, at least as far as it was reasonably possible to make them under the circumstances. Interesting. So was the result somewhat in doubt? I had the impression that by 1943 the Allies knew that victory was inevitable, not that our guys didn’t fight, bleed, and die very hard and valiantly, but I didn’t realize that we were actually short on guys at some point. I knew at the Bulge our lines were pushed back but I thought that was solely as a result of Hitler putting all of his reserves into the field. I didn’t realize that we had shortages of men at times. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/54 "2019-06-28T04:23:45Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This was sort of the spirit in which my question was asked. Of course, things are dramatized on television, but it seemed like these guys were in the meat grinder an awful lot and they were told to do raids and whatnot that seemed to me, a guy who knows nothing about military tactics, or just enough to be dangerous, that it would be better for these guys to hold their positions and let the main infantry come in and clean up. The 101st were not Rangers. They _were_ the main infantry. Being aiborne just meant they had an additional means of travel to the fight. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947/55 "2019-06-28T14:39:47Z")
[Here’s the paper on the rangers.](https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/7/combat-studies-institute/csi-books/king-rangers.pdf) It discusses a lot more than what I’ve mentioned and it’s a good read overall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers-airborne-in-wwii-purpose/835947.md?page=2)