# Band of Brothers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [May 26, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082 "2024-05-26T03:04:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/21 "2024-05-26T17:44:10Z")
I forgot where I read it but apparently the paratroopers were given orders not to take prisoners if it interfered with their offensive plans. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/22 "2024-05-26T19:26:10Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > You said: > > > [@Skywatcher](#): > > > > Sobel’s place was to train men, not to lead them into combat. Yes, that’s what I said and I was using definition 6 of “place”. Leading men into combat was above his level of ability; ergo his “place” was training them. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/23 "2024-05-26T20:04:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Fortunately many of them were still alive and healthy enough to help Stephen Ambrose with research for the book. Quite a few were still alive at the time of the show- those old guys at the beginnings of the episodes are the real men themselves. For example, Dick Winters didn’t pass away until 2011, Don Malarkey in 2017, Bill Guarnere in 2014, etc. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > My understanding is that even most of the lower officers were “civilian volunteers”. I don’t know the percentage of them who had voluntarily enlisted vs. being drafted, but paratroopers have always been all-volunteer, so they all had volunteered at least once. I got the impression that Sobel was not sensitive to the fact that these guys were all volunteers and they’d already proven that they were able to get their jump wings (i.e. they were elite soldiers) _already_. And him being the least bit incompetent at anything basic was enough for him to utterly, completely, and permanently lose their respect and confidence. I’m not saying they treated him well, but I’m sure when you’re relying on someone to be the brains of the outfit, so to speak, you’re going to be really unwilling to follow him into battle if he can’t read a map, which is something 12 year old Boy Scouts can do. And you’re going to do anything you can to get rid of him, even if it’s underhanded, as _that guy is likely to get you killed_ because of his incompetence, no matter how small. The chickenshit stuff was just icing on the cake; I suspect had Sobel been competent like Winters, they’d probably have grumbled, but put up with the chickenshit. But the mix was too much. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/24 "2024-05-26T20:30:04Z")
After the first it was certainly a series I was going to watch all of. Plus I’m a fan of Ron Livingston. And as said up thread, Spielberg and Tom Hanks are going to make a good series. I always liked the short commentary by the (at the time) survivors and that might bum me out a bit on any rewatch. ETA: On Tom Hanks, his movie Greyhound is quite good. _Fairly accurate_. Not much plot. He’s the captain of a destroyer in a convoy during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/25 "2024-05-26T20:56:21Z")
BoB held up because it followed the same outfit all the way through from training to victory. The Pacific had three separate stories: John Basileone, Robert Leckie, and Eugene Sledge. It didn’t justify its expense, so Masters of the Air fell back on the earlier form. But it was on a streamer with fewer subscribers, and also lost money. So I’ll never get to see the miniseries I’d envisioned: starting on a smoke-filled, confused battlefield, revealed to be a Civil War, not WWII battle; further revealed to be the set of The Red Badge of Courage. From there it goes into the real war experiences of Audie Murphy and Bill Mauldin: two poor kids from the American Southwest who’d make their mark. The North African/Italian/Southern France front most exemplifies “the pity of war,” with the self-inflicted tragedy of the Italians themselves, the destruction of priceless art and architecture, the incompetence of the Allied leadership, etc. A very different war, less-followed at the time compared to Northern Europe and the Pacific, and less-remembered today. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/26 "2024-05-26T21:22:08Z")
Nope, it showed him shooting prisoners, but it could be interpreted as re-enacting the stories the soldiers were telling each other. Here’s the clip: [Band of Brothers - Legend of Speirs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TDSx-izvuw) Jump to 1:43 specifically. ETA: This is the earlier clip that you were describing: [Captain Ronald Speirs Killing Germans Part : 01 | Cigarette Scene | Band Of Brothers Ep:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivZgbGwsKnA) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/27 "2024-05-26T21:30:45Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > The RAF probably should get its due as well-I am ignorant of any possible British projects past present or future however. There was a series on PBS (Masterpiece Theater, maybe?) long ago about an RAF Squadron during The Battle of Britian. It was pretty good. Loved watching those Spitfires! It was called Piece of Cake. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/28 "2024-05-26T22:48:17Z")
The paratroopers don’t much like two thirds of the people chosen to lead them. I couldn’t say if that is typical, since there are understandable reasons not to like martinets and people with very bad judgement. The story is about an élite group so they are correct to have high standards. You can clearly get in great shape, and be well trained, and still not have weekend passes cancelled over microscopic infractions. And reading maps is a basic and important skill. But the story is also a group recollection. It’s a very popular story, and if the portrayal of Dyke and Sobel are incomplete, than there should be a chance to set the record straight, as some have attempted. I was mistaken about Spiers, confusing the scenes. ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/29 "2024-05-27T02:03:34Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > , but it could be interpreted as re-enacting the stories the soldiers were telling each other This is exactly what is being shown. In one of the scenes, someone else is shooting the prisoners while Speirs is watching with a shocked look. Later in the series, Speirs tells Lipton that he doesn’t deny the rumors because he feels the effect they have on the other men is useful, fear and respect. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/30 "2024-05-27T03:06:31Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Nope, it showed him shooting prisoners, but it could be interpreted as re-enacting the stories the soldiers were telling each other. I am pretty sure that the scene was implied to be the imaginings of the soldiers telling the story, with the story teller(s) saying that they didn’t see it happen themselves, but they knew someone who knew someone who did. It was pretty ambiguous that it even happened as portrayed in the show. They all believed it happened, but nobody actually witnessed it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/31 "2024-05-27T12:51:54Z")
AMC is running all the Band of Brothers episodes on Memorial Day (starting this morning at 10). 12 hour Marathon 😀 I already purchased it on Amazon Prime. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/32 "2024-05-27T13:21:05Z")
It’s so good that even though I’ve owned it in one format or another for 20 years and watched it in entirety dozens of times, if I pass it on the TV that’s an instant stop and watch. And even on the hundredth viewing, _Why We Fight_ is still a tough watch, as it was absolutely intended. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/33 "2024-05-27T13:23:30Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > It’s very, very good. It looks beautiful. It tells a very interesting and important story. As always, I have questions. > > 1. It surprises me that it cost $12m per episode two decades ago. Sure, they wanted to use real weapons, wanted authenticity, used lots of extras and created massive indoor paper snowscapes and village sets. And it looks very good. But why not just film in a snowy spot? Because you couldn’t reliably find a place that looks like Bastogne where it is snowing just the way Spielberg wants it to and then transport the whole production there. Plus you also need the ability to replace the snow after different takes so you don’t have foot prints and tire tracks and mud and whatnot. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 1. Sobel is despised for being a hardass, authoritarian stickler with no sense of humour. But in real life, didn’t he win a Bronze Star (in Korea, perhaps)? The military must have had many such men. But these men, kissing up and kicking down, tend to think highly of themselves. Would he really be that jealous of Winters? Why did he try to court martial him over trivialities? I don’t really know what Sobel had such a hard-on for Winters. Other than maybe he actually was jealous because Winters was someone who was able to lead and command respect naturally and without the power of rank behind him. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 1. The respected officer who hands German prisoners smokes before shooting them. Is this known to be true? Did anyone much care at the time? It’s kept intentionally ambiguous throughout the show, even by Spiers himself. From what I read, it’s a bit of a grey area of whether it would be a “war crime”. At the time I believe the 101st was still scattered about operating in small units and wouldn’t have the mean to safely detain or process POWs without compromising their mission. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 1. Authenticity is a tough nut to pull off. Did the show have any inaccuracies or anachronisms? I do know that the one character Blythe I think his name was who suffered from hysterical blindness in an early episode and then died from wounds suffered in combat actually survived the war and was decorated. So he kind of got a bum deal. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 1. I read they spent all this money promoting the show, then aired it around 9/11. That must have affected things. How? The show was still very popular. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 1. Is “The Pacific” nearly as good? I don’t like it as much. I think the main reason was that it covered multiple stories in different locations as opposed to just following a single company like BoB. I highly recommend the third series “Masters of the Air” about the air war in Europe, currently streaming on AppleTV. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 1. The medics get to some injured men extremely quickly, despite limited supplies and capabilities in the field. Obviously some things are “made for TV” (soldiers in combat probably keep their helmets on). Was the portrayal somewhat realistic? I would assume so. Medics would be integrated into units at the company or platoon level. So basically as soon someone started yelling “medic!” they could come running over to bandage them up, sprinkle that white “sulfa” powder on the would and maybe give them some morphine and keep them stable so they can be taken back to the battalion aid station for eventual evacuation to a hospital in the rear. There’s an entire BoB episode focusing on one of the medics at Bastogne. You can see he spends most of his time scrounging for supplies and trying to be where the action is so he can patch up wounded. At one point he’s told “that’s as far back as it goes” meaning because Bastogne is surrounded the wounded can’t be evacuated from the church or whatever that was being used as an aid station and that short of some air drops during breaks in the weather, no more supplies were coming in. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 1. To those who like the series, how many times have you rewatched it? Why? A bunch. Mostly because it’s awesome and just runs all day on HBO on Memorial Day Weekend. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 1. Which actor does the best job? Damien Lewis (Winters) and Ron Livingston (Nixon) were obviously very good. Donnie Wahlberg was also pretty good. I always enjoy watching Dale Dye who always plays some commanding officer (and usually consultants on the production). ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/34 "2024-05-27T13:28:27Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > There’s an entire BoB episode focusing on one of the medics at Bastogne. And the nurse featured in that episode was a real person, who died the same way. There is no record of her ever meeting Eugene Roe, but it’s likely they would have encountered one another at some point. > **[Renée Lemaire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9e_Lemaire)** > > Renée Lemaire (10 April 1914 – 24 December 1944) was a Belgian nurse who volunteered her service at an American military aid station during the Siege of Bastogne in December 1944. She was killed during a German air raid on Christmas Eve in 1944. > Renée Bernadette Émilie Lemaire was born on 10 April 1914 in Bastogne to Gustave Lemaire and Bertha Gallée. Her parents owned a hardware store in Bastogne. She had two sisters, Gisèle and Marguerite. Lemaire had been a nurse in Brussels during the war... ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/35 "2024-05-27T14:17:39Z")
Hot take: I actually prefer the middle of _The Pacific_ to the middle of _Band of Brothers_. _Band of Brothers_, like so many miniseries, has a really great first episode (or two) and a really great last episode, but in between it’s somewhat dull. I mean stuff happens, but the important character development is left mostly to the series bookends. What we get in the middle is technically impressive, but far less engaging as drama. By contrast… I think _The Pacific_ is roughly even throughout, possibly aided by its disconnected storylines, allowing important developments in one storyline at least as others stagnate. I own both _Band of Brothers_ and _The Pacific_ on DVD, and think I have watched _The Pacific_ more for that reason (but we’re still talking no more than I can count on one hand for each). But maybe I’m biased because I spent much of my naval career in… _the Pacific_ (with some recurring appearances in Southwest Asia). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/36 "2024-05-27T15:12:19Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Damien Lewis (Winters) and Ron Livingston (Nixon) were obviously very good. Donnie Wahlberg was also pretty good. I always enjoy watching Dale Dye who always plays some commanding officer (and usually consultants on the production). Neal McDonough (Buck Compton) also made a very strong impression, as basically the only competent junior officer they had. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/37 "2024-05-27T15:36:54Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > - Authenticity is a tough nut to pull off. Did the show have any inaccuracies or anachronisms? > - Is “The Pacific” nearly as good? > - What did the show do best? What important things did it omit? > - For those who served, what was the pettiest thing you were ordered to do? Anything equivalent to the “spaghetti run”, or worse? As a former career NCO, I can say that I found the series to be a fairly accurate portrayal of military life, tactics and weapons use. Those are three things that always bother me in most military-oriented films, particularly weapons use. Controlled fields of fire are critical in combat, and there is not usually a lot of “spray and pray” going on. No, The Pacific is not nearly as good, IMO. I really disliked it the first time around, I think mainly because it just wasn’t BoB Pacific, but felt more charitable about it upon rewatch. I have watched BoB a couple more times and am always impressed with the attention to detail. They must have had a good advisor on the set who they actually listened to, which is not always the case. The pettiest thing? Hard to say. There are a lot of “shit jobs” handed out when there isn’t much for the junior folks to do, usually along the lines of picking up cigarette butts and the like. I was once told by my CO to perform an action that was probably illegal (I was a Navy Chief at the time). He wanted to hide some barrels full of unknown substance prior to an EPA visit to the base. I politely refused to do that and suggested that if he wanted them moved he should give that order to the men himself. This was basically the equivalent of saying “stick that up your ass”. He backed off on it. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/38 "2024-05-27T15:37:59Z")
It’s been a long time since I watched _Band of Brothers_, but I do remember being so impressed that I ordered the entire DVD set, which is still available (as well as a Blu-Ray version) and comes in an appropriately military-looking metal box. Highly recommended for anyone who hasn’t seen it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/39 "2024-05-27T15:52:55Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Neal McDonough (Buck Compton) also made a very strong impression, as basically the only competent junior officer they had. [Buck Compton](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Compton) had an incredible post war career. Detective in the Los Angeles police dept, prosecutor in Sirhan Sirhan’s trial for the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy, and a California Court of Appeal judge. It’s sobering to realize one errant piece of Shrapnel could have killed him in France or Belgium. The waste of human potential in war is something that should always be remembered. The men in Easy company went into a lot of different careers post war. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082/40 "2024-05-27T16:11:25Z")
One of the extras in the DVD set that I enjoy is Ron Livingston’s video diary that includes scenes from Dale Dye’s training camp for the cast. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/band-of-brothers/1002082.md?page=3)