# Bands/Musicians that sold out... or did they? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 28, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415 "2013-10-28T04:09:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/21 "2013-10-28T18:47:46Z")
I think Carlos Santana is open about the fact that he did _Supernatural_ and those other superstar-guest-heavy albums to make a bunch of money. The songs from the album would be all over the radio and then he’d take his regular band on tour and play whatever he felt like playing. I’m not sure if that counts as selling out, but it’s some kind of commercial strategy anyway. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/22 "2013-10-28T18:50:56Z")
> [@Bob's Zombie](#): > > I think Carlos Santana is open about the fact that he did _Supernatural_ and those other superstar-guest-heavy albums to make a bunch of money. The songs from the album would be all over the radio and then he’d take his regular band on tour and play whatever he felt like playing. I’m not sure if that counts as selling out, but it’s some kind of commercial strategy anyway. Regardless - by the time he did that recent collection of covers of great Guitar Songs, he was pretty much all the way over the line 😉 It was, to me, kinda offensive in intent; I was totally okay that it went nowhere… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/23 "2013-10-28T19:05:19Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Regardless - by the time he did that recent collection of covers of great Guitar Songs, he was pretty much all the way over the line 😉 It was, to me, kinda offensive in intent; I was totally okay that it went nowhere… That seemed pretty lazy. And I mostly agree with was said above about the myth of selling out. Still, once in a while an artist changes direction in such a way that it makes you question what they’ve been doing and your connection with their music. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/24 "2013-10-28T19:28:27Z")
I don’t think Kate Bush has ever sold out. She’s done pretty much only and exactly what she’s wanted to do from the start of her career. But early on, she did a Seiko watch commercial when she was promoting The Kick Inside in Japan, and wrote music for a series of Fruitopia ads. In the case of the last, she had free rein to record exactly what she wanted and explored some new musical styles. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/25 "2013-10-28T19:31:27Z")
> [@Bob's Zombie](#): > > That seemed pretty lazy. And I mostly agree with was said above about the myth of selling out. Still, once in a while an artist changes direction in such a way that it makes you question what they’ve been doing and your connection with their music. I think that term - laziness - can be at the heart of selling out. Question: If Chris Cornell’s experiment with Timbaland had really gotten successful, would he be considered a sellout or a pioneer? He’d already gone from Soundgarden (integrity) to Audioslave (commercial play, but rooted in Bands with Integrity™) - but this move to Hip Hop was a bridge too far to his fan base… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/26 "2013-10-28T19:34:34Z")
I think of it more as a bad idea than an attempt to make money, but I never listened to that album. He’s back with Soundgarden now, so I try not to think about it. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/27 "2013-10-28T19:46:01Z")
> [@Bob's Zombie](#): > > I think of it more as a bad idea than an attempt to make money, but I never listened to that album. He’s back with Soundgarden now, so I try not to think about it. Yeah - that’s pretty much the best way to approach it 😉 Ultimately, sellout is just a way of saying either: a) that material didn’t work; or b) that material worked, but I don’t like how I feel about you now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/28 "2013-10-28T20:10:01Z")
> [@Undead Annie](#): > > I always thought Jim Steinman had a great deal of integrity. I was shocked to hear his songs in commercials. Right. He has no integrity because he allowed his work to be used in commercials. I can’t roll my eyes hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/29 "2013-10-28T20:12:23Z")
Eh, that was a common “truth” back in the day, along with “real lawyers don’t advertise.” When _Revolution_ was to be used to sell shoes back in the late 1980s, there was quite the hubbub about how it would cheapen the music. Back then, real bands didn’t sell out… at least, not so crassly. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/30 "2013-10-28T20:16:11Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I’ll think of more later, but it’s always hard to say if it was a sincere artistic decision or a cynical one when you run into these. Well, I guess that’s part of my problem. I’ll give an example of who I think is certainly not a sell out, and maybe we can go from there. I opened for (here’s the shameless name drop) **Agent Orange** last weekend. They absolutely rocked as hard as any band I’ve seen, and the new songs were just as good as the classics. I know at least one member sometimes works a non-musical day job back home. They showed up in a van with a trailer, ate at the bar before the show, and approached me to talk before and after the show. You could tell their heart was in it from beginning to the end. Go ahead and try to convince me they’re not doing out of a love of the music. Touring is goddamned hard when it _isn’t_ in a van. But if they decided they wanted to do something more commercially successful, and were successful, how would I know if it wasn’t because their tastes changed? For a real-life example of such a switch, Dee Dee Ramone left the Ramones to be Dee Dee King, and released a terrible rap album as a result. Was that a failed attempt to jump on an existing trend, or was it just what he really wanted to do? When performers complain that they aren’t doing what they want to do, I’m not sure what to think. Sometimes their contractual obligations make it incredibly difficult to release new music. But, when I think of things like that these days, and when I think of Lars’ reaction to the internet, I think of “Everything is Free” by Gillian Welch and David Rawlings. (and it’s got some of the best guitar solos released in the last decade, find it) [QUOTE=Gillian Welch and David Rawlings] I can get a tip jar Gas up the car Try to make a little change Down at the bar. Or I can get a straight job I’ve done it before Never minded working hard It’s who I’m working for. Everything is free now That’s what they say Everything I ever done Gotta give it away. Someone hit the big score They figured it out That we’re gonna do it anyway Even if doesn’t pay. [/QUOTE] I know that I can get a show playing just about any music I want to play, but I still can’t make a living at it. I have a day job to make up for it. I suppose on some level, any musician not willing to do the same in order to play what they want is selling out. I won’t say they’re wrong for approaching it from a “give the people what they want” perspective, but I don’t usually buy those records, either. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/31 "2013-10-28T21:25:43Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I seem to remember that _Foreigner_ became famous and sold out simultaneously – somehow. > > But I’m thinking the epitome of a sellout is _Jefferson Starship_ – a ghost of _Airplane_ that should have gone quietly into the grave but was kept alive for commercial reasons. Something very much like Dick Cheney. I was going to argue with you about Jefferson Starship, then I recalled the Star Wars Holiday Special and my argument went up in a puff of smoke. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/32 "2013-10-28T21:54:00Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Anyway, I started a discussion about whether Snoop Dogg was “selling out” by being in this commercial, and most people said “No” - that there was no sellout because one of the main goals of Rap/Hip-Hop/etc culture was to get as much money as possible… so no sell out was possible. Selling out is/was definitely a thing in hiphop. But it was not applied evenly. MC Hammer got flak for endorsing British Knights but RUN DMC’s endorsement of Adidas was just seen as a smart business move. Of course, nowadays, every A list rapper has their own clothing line. Or Porn series(Snoop:dubious:), so it’s simmered down since the golden age of rap. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/33 "2013-10-28T23:08:19Z")
LL Cool J has been accused of doing anything for money - it came up after that tone-deaf duet with Brad Paisley, _Accidental Racist_, amongst other stuff. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/34 "2013-10-28T23:16:54Z")
The Band never seemed to sell out. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/35 "2013-10-28T23:24:33Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > Selling out is/was definitely a thing in hiphop. But it was not applied evenly. MC Hammer got flak for endorsing British Knights but RUN DMC’s endorsement of Adidas was just seen as a smart business move. Of course, nowadays, every A list rapper has their own clothing line. Or Porn series(Snoop:dubious:), so it’s simmered down since the golden age of rap. The interesting thing about the Run-DMC/Adidas relationship is that Run-DMC made and released their song that celebrated Adidas with no quid pro quo deal with Adidas beforehand. And neither did they anticipate such a deal happening. It was just a realistic song about what they really wore. Because the song became big, Adidas eventually got interested in the cross-promotional potential and proposed a deal. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/36 "2013-10-29T03:43:46Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > LL Cool J has been accused of doing anything for money - it came up after that tone-deaf duet with Brad Paisley, _Accidental Racist_, amongst other stuff. Yeah, that verse was unforgivable. STFU, James! I guess you could loop in a lot of hip hop artists. Ice Cube was Amerikkka’s Most Wanted, but now he’s in kid-friendly fare like Are We There Yet? Ice-T was a Cop Killa, but now he plays a cop on TV. As does LL. I should note that I think both Ices made good business decisions and I like their new work, even if it’s light years from their angry young men phases. I think the most evident example in R&B is Kool & The Gang. They were initially a straight up funk-jazz combo, with lots of instrumental tracks and the like. Then James “JT” Taylor joined as vocalist, and they had a string of MOR radio-friendly hits like “Celebration,” Get Down On It," and “Ladies Night.” Again, I like their music, but I’m sure the purists were displeased with the slicker pop sound. I think Cameo might fit this category as well. They were a 13 member funk band, but Larry Blackmon and his red codpiece took over in the 80s. I’m pretty sure I don’t ever want to hear “Word Up” again. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/37 "2013-10-29T03:58:22Z")
> [@deadtwo99](#): > > So, did Heart sell out? Not to hijack, but I saw Heart last summer in Milwaukee. The opening act was a Led Zeppelin cover band. Later Heart did another 5 Zeppelin songs. What was _that_ all about? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/38 "2013-10-29T04:05:59Z")
No mention of the Beatles? [The Querrymen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quarrymen) were a leather wearing, swaggering, hard drinking band touring Germany. They signed with Brian Epstein, got the Beatle hair cut, wore suits, and did that dorky bow at the end of their concerts. [These guys](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Sw3kvIrUVmY/S19nkj2nbtI/AAAAAAAABYs/NzxWl3N4ktc/s1600/The_Quarry_Man.gif) looked nothing like the Beatles that appeared on Ed Sullivan. [![](https://www.toledoblade.com/image/2005/05/19/800x_b1_cCM_z/Pete-Best-says-Hamburg-got-Beatles-ready-to-rock.jpg) ](https://www.toledoblade.com/image/2005/05/19/800x_b1_cCM_z/Pete-Best-says-Hamburg-got-Beatles-ready-to-rock.jpg) I think that pretty much defines selling out doesn’t it? In fairness, I loved their early pop hits. But, it took quite a few years before they got to making their own music again with Sgt Pepper and the other albums. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/39 "2013-10-29T04:09:04Z")
> [@The Reaver](#): > > KTRU, Rice University Radio had their own definition of selling out back in the 80’s-90’s, basically if anyone knew about the band besides the staff, they had sold out and were promptly dropped from rotation. This IMHO is what makes this question, pointless. > … > > Who cares? Not me. Musicians have to eat, so sell records or go to work at Dimmu Burger. > **Capt of The Reavers** I know the KTRU example you mentioned runs pretty close to the stereotype of a college music snob but that type of attitude has always bothered me. It drips of elitism and the attitude that knowledge of certain bands must be kept obscure and limited to only those in a exclusive hipster cult because informing the tasteless drooling morons who make up the general public about their existence will only result in the bands being contaminated by the throng. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/40 "2013-10-29T05:53:48Z")
Hate to be a total douche to the OP, but I think the whole “selling out” accusation is crap. Since when are rock stars Puritans? Or Shakespeare? A lot of them got into the biz to rock out, get high, get laid, get fucked, and make a bunch of money doing it, without actually really working. How is putting out a top 40 pop-rock tune or a commercial jingle “selling out” when it helps said rock star to achieve his/her goal of getting high, getting laid/getting fucked, yet making a lot of money, without actually, like, working? Brock Yates becoming an Ohio state trooper in the 70’s would have been"selling-out", dudes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415.md?page=3)