# Bands/Musicians that sold out... or did they? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 28, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415 "2013-10-28T04:09:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/41 "2013-10-29T07:22:09Z")
The Who responded to allegations they sold out in licensing their songs to the CSI TV show franchise (CSI - “Who Are You?;” CSI: Miami - “Won’t Get Fooled Again;” CSI: NY - “Baba O’Riley”) by recording the song [“Mike Post Theme”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endless_Wire_(The_Who_album)#Song_breakdown) about the prolific composer of such TV themes as “The Rockford Files,” “The A-Team,” “Hill Street Blues,” and “Magnum, P.I.” [QUOTE=Pete Townshend] Who songs have been used recently for TV shows. I thought a lot about why there are people who feel that isn’t a cool thing to do. Mike Post is a man who has written a number of TV themes that I feel have created a kind of regular sparkle in my life– they have reminded me that life comes one day at a time, and that it is truly the little things in life (like Soap Operas on TV) that help ease the big troubles. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/42 "2013-10-29T12:15:41Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Since when are rock stars Puritans? Or Shakespeare? Shakespeare was pretty commercial in his day. He was a very savvy businessman who made his plays had something for the educated people in the expensive seats and something for the groundlings standing in front. He also wasn’t the type to provoke authority or bite the hand that fed him. > [@](#): > > A lot of them got into the biz to rock out, get high, get laid, get fucked, and make a bunch of money doing it, without actually really working. Fair point. Artists like that aren’t likely to be accused of selling out in the first place, but people often assume they know what the artist’s intention are even if they have no way of knowing. ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/43 "2013-10-29T18:32:44Z")
> [@Molesworth\_2](#): > > Def Leppard are seen as pretty much the epitome of '80s hair-metal. > IIRC, at one stage in their early career they were opening for the Sex Pistols. A few years later they were releasing generic '80s power-ballads. Do you have a cite for that? their first album came out around 78 which is the same year the pistols broke up on their US tour. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/44 "2013-10-29T18:38:18Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > The Who responded to allegations they sold out in licensing their songs to the CSI TV show franchise (CSI - “Who Are You?;” CSI: Miami - “Won’t Get Fooled Again;” CSI: NY - “Baba O’Riley”) by recording the song [“Mike Post Theme”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endless_Wire_(The_Who_album)#Song_breakdown) about the prolific composer of such TV themes as “The Rockford Files,” “The A-Team,” “Hill Street Blues,” and “Magnum, P.I.” Didn’t [the Who Sell Out](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who_Sell_Out) in 1967? What’s for dinner, daughter? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/45 "2013-10-29T18:41:23Z")
Developing a unique style or sound is the toughest part of becoming a successful musician. Sometimes it takes an outsider like a music producer to nail it down. I gave the Beatles example earlier. They’d spent years performing and just barely making a living. I mentioned Brian Epstein earlier. He gave them that distinctive look and sound that made them a huge hit on the Ed Sullivan show. Was it selling out or just being smart? They wanted huge success and they got it. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/46 "2013-10-29T18:56:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Developing a unique style or sound is the toughest part of becoming a successful musician. Sometimes it takes an outsider like a music producer to nail it down. I gave the Beatles example earlier. They’d spent years performing and just barely making a living. I mentioned Brian Epstein earlier. He gave them that distinctive look and sound that made them a huge hit on the Ed Sullivan show. Was it selling out or just being smart? They wanted huge success and they got it. Meh. Their music stayed their own; and got more so as they experimented in the studio. Now if you want to discuss McCartney’s _Ebony and Ivory_ duet with Stevie Wonder, you may have a case for a sellout. ;). Or, a bit more seriously, those tracks that were recorded for the Anthology series with old demo tracks John recorded - Free as a Bird and Real Love. They didn’t sound good and felt a little sellout-y as a result. I wish they’d just released the demos… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/47 "2013-10-29T21:19:12Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Nuts. Nobody in rock has sold out since Dylan forever mocked it to death at Newport in 1965. > > Have people and bands changed to become more popular or keep a career going after their initial popularity or tried to keep up with the fickleness of the younger buyers? Sure. As WordMan said, only like, you know, everyone. > > Rod Stewart’s earliest solo albums were singer-songwriter classics. That was in the heyday of the singer-songwriter. When that era faded, he did anything and everything, from disco to classic pop. Did he sell out or did he insure himself a career doing what he loved - making music and performing? > > Neil Young has a reputation of not selling out. He always made the albums he wanted in the style he wanted and never cared whether his fans were zagging when he was zigging. Is that not selling out or insuring himself a career doing what he loved - making music and performing? And if so what exactly is the difference between him and Rod Stewart? > > I gave the simple answer to this question. Nuts. Hang on a sec. > [@bup](#): > > Creating music that is intentionally not what they want to do, or believe is the best music they can make, but that they believe will sell more. > > The problem is that it’s easy to state, but hard to identify in the wild. When a band changes direction entirely, is it because they were after something new artistically, or because they want to cash in? I think that’s an fairly good if succinct definition of “selling out”, but I think we can do better. And here’s why Neil Young has not sold out, and why Rod Stewart has not sold out. They have different goals, as you note, **Exapno**. Rod Stewart just wants to be performing. He doesn’t care what he’s performing, as long as he’s onstage in front of people. So he does whatever it takes to realize that goal. Neil Young just wants to make music that he wants to make. He doesn’t care if people like it as long as _he_ likes it, so he does whatever it takes to realize that goal. The difference between the two of them is that Rod Stewart could virtually never sell out while Neil Young could sell out, and that is because to Mr. Young, his integrity as an artist is more important to him than his acceptance by the public. And that’s the real thing that makes someone a sellout: having a desire for integrity and then intentionally violating that integrity. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/48 "2013-10-30T18:10:06Z")
So, Rolling Stone’s David Fricke gives it 4.5 out of 5 stars: > **[Reflektor](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-album-reviews/reflektor-119561/)** > > Check out our album review of Artist's Reflektor on Rolling Stone.com. But this other reviewer from Grantland, a website I find to have pretty good content, says the following: > [@](#): > > I’m not going to declare this album a disaster. After playing Reflektor a dozen times in the past five days, there’s a 62 percent chance I’ll want to play it again. But it’s easily the worst album Arcade Fire has made. If Reflektor was intended to make Arcade Fire appear less bloated, it’s a failure. If it was meant to distill the band’s music down to a purely physical essence, it’s a failure. If it was supposed to present the band in a more down-to-earth, approachable guise, it’s a failure. In each case, I’d argue that this record does the exact opposite. This is the most distended, most fumbling, and most distant edition of Arcade Fire yet. **Reflektor is the one thing I never thought Arcade Fire would be: fake.** \ > **[» Fire in the Disco](https://grantland.com/features/arcade-fire-reflektor-review/)** Interesting. One thinks it is their best ever; another thinks they’ve sold out. Same as it ever was 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/49 "2013-10-30T18:18:32Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Regardless, the obvious answer to this question is **The Beatles** , who changed their entire look and stage manner in 1962 specifically so they would be more accessible. Paul McCartney has joked about the idea that the Beatles weren’t interested in commercial success. He said _“John and I literally used to sit down and say, ‘Now, let’s write a swimming pool’.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/50 "2013-10-30T18:27:41Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > So, Rolling Stone’s David Fricke gives it 4.5 out of 5 stars: > [Arcade Fire 'Reflektor' Review](http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/reflektor-20130927) > > But this other reviewer from Grantland, a website I find to have pretty good content, says the following: > > [» Fire in the Disco](http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9894330/arcade-fire-reflektor-review) > > Interesting. One thinks it is their best ever; another thinks they’ve sold out. Same as it ever was 😉 I read the Grantland review you linked to, and I didn’t really get the sell-out vibe that you did. More I got a “half-baked” and “grasping but not sure at what” vibe. Which, from my perspective, is understandable for this band and so many others of their kind. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/51 "2013-10-30T20:13:47Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Not to hijack, but I saw Heart last summer in Milwaukee. The opening act was a Led Zeppelin cover band. Later Heart did another 5 Zeppelin songs. > > What was _that_ all about? The Wilson sisters are uber-giddy Zep mega-fans, plus Ann can nail the vocal pocket of Plant’s voice. And Nancy can play circles around Page. They’ve always done Zep covers for as long as I can remember. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/52 "2013-10-30T20:44:34Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > And Nancy can play circles around Page. I agree with the rest of your post, but not this part. Much respect to Nancy Wilson - she’s a groove machine - but she couldn’t bring what Page brought to Led Zeppelin. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/53 "2013-10-31T01:49:07Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I agree with the rest of your post, but not this part. Much respect to Nancy Wilson - she’s a groove machine - but she couldn’t bring what Page brought to Led Zeppelin. But, it’s really Page’s brain that’s exceptional. I’m sure you or I can play anything his hands can do, but conceiving those solos and riffs in the first place is akin to magic. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/54 "2013-10-31T04:10:39Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > But, it’s really Page’s brain that’s exceptional. I’m sure you or I can play anything his hands can do, but conceiving those solos and riffs in the first place is akin to magic. I assume you mean the ones that he didn’t plagiarize, right? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/55 "2013-10-31T05:23:39Z")
> [@Babyeater Bohemoth](#): > > I assume you mean the ones that he didn’t plagiarize, right? Nah, knowing what to steal is a kind of genius, too. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/56 "2013-10-31T11:14:30Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Nah, knowing what to steal is a kind of genius, too. True. It’s not what you steal, it’s what you do with it and how you share credit. All music is in the brain first; that’s why I phrased my post the way I did - Page brought a complete package - writing, playing, producing, performing, etc - that made Zep what it was… ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/57 "2013-10-31T12:40:23Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Back in the day, Metallica fans saw the first sell-out as the song “One” and the subsequent video. For a band that had built it’s fan-base and reputation without radio airtime or MTV, it raised alot of eyebrows. That’s how I remember it, too. Many people think that _The Black Album_ was where they lost some of their hardcore fans but it happened a couple of years earlier. I don’t remember any particular criticism of the song itself (they had done ballads before and the subject was appropriately bleak) but the fact that they were going to release a _video_ raised quite an uproar in some circles. I didn’t get it. I thought it was a non-issue. They were not writing an album of disco covers. Actually, I was delighted when I stumbled upon it one afternoon. You have to bear in mind that in the late 80’s, guitars were decidedly not cool. This was the sort of things that were popular: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KigNbUxx6X8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KigNbUxx6X8). The message was clear: if you liked rock (or worse, metal) you were a pathetically out of date weirdo. Seeing Metallica on a regular show meant more people being exposed to good, real music. I didn’t really have a problem with _The Black Album_ either. Sure, it sounded different. No abrupt meter changes. James was… singing! But I had moved on musically by that time so it was no big deal for me. And again, I was happy that guitars and musicians really playing their instruments were fashionable again. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/58 "2013-10-31T13:45:54Z")
**Megadeth** took slow but steady downturn following _Rust in Peace_. I’d conjecture this was in direct response to the success of _The Black Album_, and while it could be considered a success - _Countdown to Extinction_, _Youthanasia_, and _Cryptic Writings_ all went platinum, IMO the quality and style of the music steadily deteriorated until bottoming out with the horrifically bad _Risk_. It’s my understanding that they have since returned to their original sound, but I, for one, have been permanently lost to them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/59 "2013-10-31T14:27:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Paul McCartney has joked about the idea that the Beatles weren’t interested in commercial success. He said _“John and I literally used to sit down and say, ‘Now, let’s write a swimming pool’.”_ Amazing how they undervalued their work: I would think even the lowliest Lennon/McCartney song in their catalog is worth far more than a swimming pool. Now, if he said “Let’s write a $5 million revenue stream that the copyright owner can draw on for the next 50+ years”, that would have been about right. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415/60 "2013-10-31T15:47:47Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Nah, knowing what to steal is a kind of genius, too. If you steal from one author it’s plagiarism; if you steal from many it’s research. Wilson Mizner > [@JohnT](#): > > Amazing how they undervalued their work: I would think even the lowliest Lennon/McCartney song in their catalog is worth far more than a swimming pool. Now, if he said “Let’s write a $5 million revenue stream that the copyright owner can draw on for the next 50+ years”, that would have been about right. 😉 This is pure hindsight. At the time a swimming pool was as much as they could have hoped to get. They had signed away publishing rights and almost everything else. They were receiving pennies on the dollar, when they got anything at all. Nor did they or anyone believe their music would be valuable 50 years in the future. They would change the culture to make the music valuable forever, but they couldn’t possibly know that in the early 1960s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-musicians-that-sold-out-or-did-they/672415.md?page=4)