# Bands Sue Sony Over Download Royalties **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661 "2006-04-28T21:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/1 "2006-04-28T21:40:21Z")
Cheap Trick and the Allman Brothers have sued Sony over the method used to calculate the bands’ share of royalties for purchased Internet downloads: > [@](#): > > …According to the suit, the record company is treating digital downloads like traditional record sales, rather than licensed music, triggering a different royalty deal. > > Under that old rubrik, **the record company deducts fees for the kind of extra costs they used to incur when records were pressed on vinyl, including packaging charges, restocking costs and losses due to breakage**. > > Tracks sold over the Internet usually go for about 99 cents. About 70 cents of the sale price goes to Sony. The bands are getting about 4 1/2 cents per song, according to the suit, rather than the approximately 30 cents they claim is rightfully theirs… Yeah, I understand it’s expensive to package and restock stuff in cyberspace, not to mention replacing all the broken 1s and 0s… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/2 "2006-04-28T21:46:52Z")
Cheap Trick is hoping that Sony will surrender, surrender. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/3 "2006-04-28T21:49:10Z")
People download the Allman Brothers and Cheap Trick? Someone should tell them that the reason their royalty checks are so low is because 30% of zero is, in fact, zero. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/4 "2006-04-28T21:53:51Z")
Hey, I’ve downloaded some Allman Brothers songs. So they’ve made _at least_ $5.94. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/5 "2006-04-28T22:01:48Z")
So, they’re saying that Sony should be tied to the whipping post? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/6 "2006-04-28T22:02:52Z")
I think that a band like the Allmans can initiate something like this, because the majority of their income is from touring in the last 20 years or so, and album sales probably don’t amount to much. So what if Sony drops them? They’ll be back on another label in seconds. Cheap Trick on the other hand is probably just really bored. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/7 "2006-04-28T22:26:15Z")
[Cheap Trick](http://www.cheaptrick.com/) is still quite active on the tour circuit. These bands never die, they just play smaller arenas. And they need the money for their kids’ underfunded college plans, and their own underfunded 401(k) plans. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/8 "2006-04-28T22:28:44Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Cheap Trick is hoping that Sony will surrender, surrender. “…but don’t give yourself awaaaay…” ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/9 "2006-04-28T22:31:20Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Cheap Trick is hoping that Sony will surrender, surrender. I’m sure the Dream Police are investigating. mm ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/10 "2006-04-28T23:22:43Z")
Ya know, it’s hard to feel guilty about downloading music illegally, when I read shit like this. I mean…sorry about losing your 4.5% royalty guys, but…I sure as HELL ain’t giving any money to Sony!!! Eliminate all record labels, disband the RIAA, and allow musicians to OWN THEIR MUSIC again, and sell directly to the consumer…then, I’ll actually pay for music again. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/11 "2006-04-28T23:25:22Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > Cheap Trick on the other hand is probably just really bored. It’s hard to fade into oblivion. They just want us to want them. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/12 "2006-04-28T23:32:33Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > [Cheap Trick](http://www.cheaptrick.com/) is still quite active on the tour circuit. These bands never die, they just play smaller arenas. And they need the money for their kids’ underfunded college plans, and their own underfunded 401(k) plans. I was going to see them open for Aerosmith a few weeks back before Tyler had to cancel the tour. Now they’re involved in a suit. See how the boredome angle works? 😃 Oh, and fuck Sony. I don’t even buy their recordable media. In their way of thinking I’d probably just use the disks to burn pirated shit. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/13 "2006-04-29T00:19:27Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Ya know, it’s hard to feel guilty about downloading music illegally, when I read shit like this. > > I mean…sorry about losing your 4.5% royalty guys, but…I sure as HELL ain’t giving any money to Sony!!! > > Eliminate all record labels, disband the RIAA, and allow musicians to OWN THEIR MUSIC again, and sell directly to the consumer…then, I’ll actually pay for music again. Of course you will pay, you rebel you. Fighting for the rights of the musicians and thumbing your nose at the powerful music industry!!! You’re cutting edge man! Fight the Power!!! You’re a fucking pathetic thief. You just so happen to steal more from Sony than you do from the artists, but your still a thief. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/14 "2006-04-29T08:07:14Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You’re a fucking pathetic thief. You just so happen to steal more from Sony than you do from the artists, but your still a thief. Oh, go fuck a pigeon, you wannabe corporate shrew. You’re not even getting paid by Sony to say that, are you? They’ve got you brainwashed. I do not support any criminal organization, and that’s what Sony is. Remember that [little malware gambit](http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/11/07/sony_malware_legal/) they surprised everyone with last year? And I wouldn’t be surprised if Sony was, in some way, behind the scenes during that tiny legal situation with Michael Jackson, just to destroy his career and force him to relinquish his rights to the Beatles catalog. Heck, I’d refuse to support Exxon/Mobil, and steal gasoline if I could. Unfortunately, you can’t download gas. (And for what it’s worth, I haven’t downloaded mp3s…or purchased music in _any_ form…for years. This whole file-sharing brouhaha totally turned me off from buying new music, and I used to spend up to $300/month on CDs!) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/15 "2006-04-29T08:25:00Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Heck, I’d refuse to support Exxon/Mobil, and steal gasoline if I could. Unfortunately, you can’t download gas. Well, yeah, actually you can. And no I’m not e-mailing anyone about it. I might be ignorant, but I’m not a friggin idiot. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/16 "2006-04-29T11:09:03Z")
I’m more amused by the ‘disband the RIAA’ thing as if it was some form of government agency or something. The RIAA is nothing more than an industry association. And it’s just like the other (no fooling) 30,000+ industry associations in Washington. It’s their job to represent the needs and desires of their member companies. In this case it means trying to prevent illegal downloading of songs (most famously) and, I’m certain, other legislative objectives to maximize their members profits. My heart! Now, get me, I do think that they’re on the wrong side of history here in that I think preventing the free distribution of music is a losing proposition. But calling for them to be ‘disbanded’ (by whom, incidentally?) is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/17 "2006-04-29T12:30:53Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I might be ignorant, but I’m not a friggin idiot. 😛 Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/18 "2006-04-29T12:36:21Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Of course you will pay, you rebel you. Fighting for the rights of the musicians and thumbing your nose at the powerful music industry!!! You’re cutting edge man! Fight the Power!!! > > You’re a fucking pathetic thief. You just so happen to steal more from Sony than you do from the artists, but your still a thief. I think one can agree that theft of luxury items is morally wrong. But can you not also agree that there is an immorality about the royalty breakdown discussed in the OP? Or the Sony DRM malware which also, reputedly, violated the GNU license for some of its code? What of people who commit code copyright theft, or who push malware products built on stolen code? One doesn’t excuse the other, of course not, but let’s not lose sight, in the context of this thread, of the fact that there’s more than one thief here. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/19 "2006-04-29T13:40:58Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > I think one can agree that theft of luxury items is morally wrong. > > But can you not also agree that there is an immorality about the royalty breakdown discussed in the OP? Or the Sony DRM malware which also, reputedly, violated the GNU license for some of its code? What of people who commit code copyright theft, or who push malware products built on stolen code? > > One doesn’t excuse the other, of course not, but let’s not lose sight, in the context of this thread, of the fact that there’s more than one thief here. I agree completely that Sony is in the wrong. The royalty breakdown is patently unfair, with Sony slimely trying to justify it with claims of costs they don’t have. And Sony, if it is true they themselves are violating copyrights with the computer code, should pay through the nose. I’ll note that the malware, like anti-copying software that violate “fair use”, were created in response to the theft of music and DVD’s, and not the other way around. Yes, Sony is bad, evil, and unfair. Using that as a justification of theft is a great example of immature, dare I say teenaged angst, thinking. > [@KGS](#): > > Oh, go fuck a pigeon, you wannabe corporate shrew. You’re not even getting paid by Sony to say that, are you? They’ve got you brainwashed. Of course they do. It’d be impossible to call a thief a thief unless you’re a corporate shill or brainwashed. > [@KGS](#): > > I do not support any criminal organization, and that’s what Sony is. Remember that little malware gambit they surprised everyone with last year? And I wouldn’t be surprised if Sony was, in some way, behind the scenes during that tiny legal situation with Michael Jackson, just to destroy his career and force him to relinquish his rights to the Beatles catalog. > > Heck, I’d refuse to support Exxon/Mobil, and steal gasoline if I could. Unfortunately, you can’t download gas. > > (And for what it’s worth, I haven’t downloaded mp3s…or purchased music in any form…for years. This whole file-sharing brouhaha totally turned me off from buying new music, and I used to spend up to $300/month on CDs!) Tell yourself whatever you need to to justify it to yourself, you’re still nothing but a little thief. Do it under the rubric of fighting evil corporatations. Pretend you’re a fucking modern day Robin Hood. Tell yourself and everyone else that the money you no longer spend on music has nothing to do with the fact your stealing it for free rather than buying it. None of that changes that you’re a delusional little thief. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661/20 "2006-04-29T14:18:32Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Yes, Sony is bad, evil, and unfair. Using that as a justification of theft is a great example of immature, dare I say teenaged angst, thinking. I think we’re in agreement. The issue I think people are perhaps not conveying well is that given the distateful way Sony has handled things, it encourages people to disrespect them. Now, of what value is this “respect”? In terms of the law, really none. But in terms of Real People, who don’t really follow the law totally and completely (how many people, honestly, _never_ speed, for example?), then it has a real impact. Sony could help its case and exert a market influence that might make some think twice about “punishing” them via downloading, if it were a respectable company. Again, not excusing things here, but just saying out loud people tend to disrespect disrespectful people. Plus, people, in general, love to point out hypocricy, especially corporate greed-based hypocricy. Sony wants to save money by ripping people off, but goes to extreme lengths not to be ripped off itself. That rubs people the wrong way. Of course, in conjunction with this is the fact that although Sony may only give an artist 4 cents on the dollar, the downloader who pays no royalty to punish Sony gives the artist 0 cents on the dollar as well. Unless they contribute to one of those virtual tip jar things that used to be around. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-sue-sony-over-download-royalties/354661.md?page=2)