# Bands that Jumped the Shark **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143 "2004-03-29T19:51:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/41 "2004-03-30T12:39:58Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Metallica’s Black Album caught them in midair, with the Ramp of Quality just behind them and the Ramp of Suck just in front of them. I wish I’d said that - too damn funny! It almost makes up for your POV on REM and U2! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/42 "2004-03-30T13:35:07Z")
> [@RobuSensei](#): > > **Genesis** , but I’m not sure when. Some say when Peter left and Phil took over as front man. Some say it’s when Steve left. I don’t know…I really liked _We Can’t Dance_ (second-to-last album), but when Tony and Mike put out another album after Phil left, there was no doubt that they had jumped. > > On a related note, I’d say that **Phil Collins** jumped around _Both Sides._ That album, for some reason, almost made me suicidal. Gah. > that, plus he was running out of ways to make an album cover with just his face on it. The only Phil album to not go platinum (a non live or hits album) was [Dance Into the Light](http://www.musicmatic.de/C/Collins1a.jpg). Notice how you don’t get a closeup of his gigantic head. Apparently, Phil noticed this and his new album, [Testify](http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00006RYHW.08.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) returns to his face-on-cover thing. Will it go platinum? Probably not. His time as a solo superstar has come and gone. ---
**Author:** ![mbacko1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@mbacko1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbacko1)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/43 "2004-03-30T13:54:59Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > In my answer to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4696879#post4696879), I rezlized I was listing a bunch of bands that started out well, but turned bad as time went on. It occurred to me to start a thread to identify when goods bands went bad. > > My starter: > > **Chicago** – after “Chicago II” > **King Crimson** – after Macdonald and Giles left. > **Pink Floyd** – after “Wish You Were Here.” > > What are your choices? I would place the album locations differently for a couple of these bands. Chicago is very interesting and relevent through _Chicago V_, after that they start to get very ballady. There is still some good material after that but all hope is lost when guitarist Terry Kath dies around _Chicago XI_. The band becomes an easy listening cheese factory. Pink Floyd goes down hill on _The Final Cut_. This was a Roger Waters solo album disguised as Pink Floyd. The band is just not the same without Roger. If you place the “Jump the Shark” location after \*Wish You Were Here \* you disrespect _Animals_ which is a clever, viseral and dark album. I don’t think King Crimson ever jumped the shark. They continue to make interesting music even though they never duplicated the popularity they had during the releases of \*The Court of the Crimson King \* and _Wake of Poseidon_. “Starless” off of _Red_ in 1974 is a very soulful tune. “Thela Hun Ginjeet” from _Discipline_ 1981 is incredible live and a lot of fun. Some other bands that “jumped the shark”: Van Halen reinvented themselves with Sammy Hagar and as long as you think of them as two bands, Van Halen (Dave) and Van Hagar (Sammy) I can respect music during both eras. However the music with Dave as the lead vocalist is more creative and funny. So you could argue that they jumped the shark after 1984. Yes jumped the shark after _90125_. That album is a pretty good pop album but \*Big Generator \* is awful. Rush becomes a pale imitation of itself on \*Hold Your Fire \* and never really recovers. They perform a few interesting songs after this but Neil’s lyrics really begin to drag them down. Geddy Lee’s solo album surprisingly is pretty good, but he wrote the lyrics and not Neil. Metallica begins their fall on the _Black Album_ with the song “Nothing Else Matters” and proceeds to become a hugely popular though uninspired pop/metal band. They recently release \*St. Anger \* after becoming clean and sober with drums that sound like the drummer is playing the Sears $80 drum set or his mommy’s pots and pans. Bare in mind that I like all of these bands, so I am not being critical to be mean. Mike ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/44 "2004-03-30T14:32:59Z")
“I’ll also make a controversial (and perhaps sacreligious) supposition and suggest that the Grateful Dead jumped when Brent died.” Controversial? Its taken for gospel as far as any Deadhead I’ve ever known is concerned. VInce was just too cheesy for words. They had started to make a few inroads (breaking out a bunch of new covers and working up an arrangement of “Unbroken Chain” that would work), but it was too little too late. “The Rolling Stones - Tattoo You (btw, is that David Bowie on the cover?)” Hmmm…given that all of the material on that album was much older (some going back to 1972), did they jump the shark when they put out the album (1980) or when they produced the material? ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/45 "2004-03-30T14:38:11Z")
> [@RealTronic](#): > > Yes, I sort of agree with this. I still don’t think they’ve completely jumped the shark, but losing Alan Wilder marked a downward turn of quality, that’s for sure. Well, definitely the loss of Alan Wilder ruined the group. I look at it this way, **Music For the Masses** is their very best album, with eternally wonderful songs like Strangelove and Never Let Me Down Again, and **Violator** does not have ONE SONG that I skip over when listening to it. I can listen to that album three times in succession without skipping songs. **Songs of Faith And Devotion** has some AWESOME music including I Feel You and Rush, but there are also songs on there I skip. It’s hit or miss for me, and after that, I sort of liked the singles It’s No Good and Home, but I’m not even driven to seek out Depeche Mode albums anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Lars\_Aruns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Lars\_Aruns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lars_Aruns)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/46 "2004-03-30T14:45:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think King Crimson ever jumped the shark. They continue to make interesting music even though they never duplicated the popularity they had during the releases of The Court of the Crimson King and Wake of Poseidon. “Starless” off of Red in 1974 is a very soulful tune. “Thela Hun Ginjeet” from Discipline 1981 is incredible live and a lot of fun. All true, but then, after many many years, they released the absolutely _flat_ **The ConstruKction of Light** , and that’s where they jumped the shark. Live releases are okayish, apart from the horrid **Thrakattak** , but all the subsequent studio recording are _boooring_. Time to quit, Bob? ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/47 "2004-03-30T15:55:06Z")
> [@captaindoesnotlikeyou](#): > > geez…really…the Clash is my favorite band **EVARR** , but I still cannot bring myself to listen to _that_ album > > Imagine if McCartney kicked Lennon out of the Beatles and hired a shitload of crappy/unknown guitar players to replace him. > > No. Would not work. Not quite true, IMHO. Don’t get me wrong, “Cut the Crap” is a third-rate album that will forever be a blemish on the otherwise stellar legacy of **The Clash**. But that album was re-worked by manager-turned-clueless-producer Bernie Rhodes, who put in cheesy drum machines and off-key choruses in almost every song. But really, you should check out what **The Clash II** (as they are now commonly called) sounded like live. Those same dismal songs on “Cut the Crap” really rocked when performed on stage. I’ve heard that there are some deep, dark places on the Internet where you can freely download some MP3s of these live performances, but Google help me, I just don’t know _where_ they might be … (coff, coff) If Music Could Talk (coff, coff) ---
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/48 "2004-03-30T17:18:40Z")
> [@Wordman](#): > > I am inclined to agree - Master of Puppets is pretty much the epitome of metal, as far as I am concerned. However, I think …and Justice for All is great, just not as good as MoP. And the Black Album, while it shortened the songs and brought them mainstream, it has some stuff on it that just rocks - Sad but True has one of the best riffs I have ever heard… > > So I guess I vote for right after the Black album… I agree with Wordman. The Black Album marks a pivotal point in Metallica’s history, the beginning of the band’s downfall. They still rocked on the Black album but by then they had become more mainstream. _Load_ and _Re-Load_ were big disappointments, but still forgivable. I still held onto my hopes that they’d recover, but _Garage Days Revisited_ and _S&M_ were harbingers of the band’s inevitable demise. Suing their fans for downloading MP3s was the final straw, so I thought, but then they went on to release the pile of shit known as _St. Anger_. I don’t think Metallica stands a chance in hell of ever making a comeback at this point. I never thought I would say Metallica sucks, but when comparing pre-aBlack album material to post-Black album material, there’s a huge difference. Other bands: Styx- _Paradise Theatre_. Led Zeppelin- _Physical Graffiti_. Van Halen- Once Diamond Dave bailed it was over as far as I’m concerned. Yes- I agree,_90125_ is remarkably different but still good. I listened to _Big Generator_ once. Big disappointment indeed. Rush- I stopped buying their CDs when they released _Presto_. ---
**Author:** ![Nutty\_Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d07c76/32.png) [@Nutty\_Bunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nutty_Bunny)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/49 "2004-03-30T17:36:34Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > Well, definitely the loss of Alan Wilder ruined the group. I look at it this way, **Music For the Masses** is their very best album, with eternally wonderful songs like Strangelove and Never Let Me Down Again, and **Violator** does not have ONE SONG that I skip over when listening to it. I can listen to that album three times in succession without skipping songs. **Songs of Faith And Devotion** has some AWESOME music including I Feel You and Rush, but there are also songs on there I skip. It’s hit or miss for me, and after that, I sort of liked the singles It’s No Good and Home, but I’m not even driven to seek out Depeche Mode albums anymore. I agree with you. I have everything they’ve ever done up to and including **Violator**. After that, it’s just…meh. **Music for the Masses** _is_ their best album. Alan Wilder _was_ Depeche Mode, as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/50 "2004-03-30T17:43:01Z")
> [@yellowval](#): > > I also happen to love almost every song on “Nine Lives.” That CD, to me, was the freshest thing Aerosmith had put out in a long, long time. Same here! I never cease to be amazed by the amount of vitriol these guys seem to get. It’s like, I _know_ they’ve released more power ballads than any band has a right to, I _know_ they did a Super Bowl medley with Britney Spears and the Backstreet Boys. None of this changes the fact that they still make great hard rock when they want to. (Important qualifier, that.) _Honkin’ On Bobo_ comes out today, btw. Heard two cuts from it that are flat-out great (“You Gotta Move” and “I’m Ready”) and a few that sounded like standard snooze blues. Undecided. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Mr\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/51 "2004-03-30T17:56:28Z")
> [@Kid\_A](#): > > **Offspring** - As soon as Pretty Fly for a White Guy became huge. Now they’re just a novelty act. > **The Smashing Pumpkins** - Firing Jimmy Chamberlain. > **Our Lady Peace** - Probably when Raine started going out with Chantal, now they’ve gone all wishy-washy. > > And I’ll say \*\*the Hip \*\* are halfway to jumping, they’re newer stuff isn’t that good. They’ve got a new album coming out soon, so I’ll wait for that to completely judge. Even though they are still great live, same with OLP. I immediatly thought of OLP. Damn what the hell happened? Their early stuff ws good, got them airplay and they were cool and the buggered it up with this mainstream garbage they churn out. Funnily enough Chantal is still listenable. As for REM…I disagree I don’t think they’ve jumped the shark, I think they’ve been having an identity crisis followed by a mid-life crisis. They are trying to do something taht is rarely done, stay vital in their not-so-hip yrs while remaining on their own terms. I loved NAIHF and Up and enjoyed Reveal though it’s not a fave. Go back and listen to them, really listen there are some damn good songs in there. I can’t wait to hear the new stuff and how many bands that have been together for that long can give you that feeling? ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/52 "2004-03-30T18:09:02Z")
> [@Nutty Bunny](#): > > I agree with you. I have everything they’ve ever done up to and including **Violator**. After that, it’s just…meh. **Music for the Masses** _is_ their best album. > > Alan Wilder _was_ Depeche Mode, as far as I’m concerned. While I agree that Alan was what made DM, I gotta say that my favorite album is definitely **Black Celebration**. Love it. **Violator** comes in a close second with **SOFAD** nipping at its heels. Then we get to **Music for the Masses**. I love it, but I don’t love it as much as the others. But it DOES have _Never Let Me Down Again_ and _To Have and To Hold_, two complete classics in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![nitroglycerine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@nitroglycerine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitroglycerine)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/53 "2004-03-30T19:53:47Z")
> [@Spiff](#): > > Not quite true, IMHO. > > Don’t get me wrong, “Cut the Crap” is a third-rate album that will forever be a blemish on the otherwise stellar legacy of **The Clash**. But that album was re-worked by manager-turned-clueless-producer Bernie Rhodes, who put in cheesy drum machines and off-key choruses in almost every song. I’ve always said that. If that album would have been built differently, it could have been a great punk album in the vein of classic Sham 69 or something. It’s still better than the unlistenable (IMHO) and lame Combat Rock (Ugh…I hate hate HATE that album) Nobody has mentioned Butthole Surfers yet. Piough’d was the long head start , Independant Worm Saloon was the ramp, and when they jumped, they jumped so high that they ain’t never coming back down. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/54 "2004-03-30T20:04:29Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > While I agree that Alan was what made DM, I gotta say that my favorite album is definitely **Black Celebration**. Love it. **Violator** comes in a close second with **SOFAD** nipping at its heels. Then we get to **Music for the Masses**. I love it, but I don’t love it as much as the others. But it DOES have _Never Let Me Down Again_ and _To Have and To Hold_, two complete classics in my opinion. Since I’m a front to back Depeche Mode maniac, it’s always been hard to pick my favorite. Of COURSE I love **Black Celebration** featuring one of my favorites It Doesn’t Matter II and Question of Time, oh god, Question of Time…but I’m still sticking with MFTM as their best. Frankly, I even love Speak and Spell, if only for **Photographic**. Still, I’m missing the appeal of Songs Of Faith and Devotion. ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/55 "2004-03-30T21:18:51Z")
Their last “good” albums… **Ramones** - Subterranean Jungle **Black Flag** - Damaged **Replacements** - Tim **Husker Du** - New Day Rising **The Clash** - Sandinista **REM** - Document I never really liked **U2** … but starting at _Joshua Tree_ they became entirely unlistenable. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/56 "2004-03-30T21:48:07Z")
Depeche Mode jumped the shark when Vince Clarke left. Speak and Spell is their only really good album. They did manage some nice songs afterwards, but they never came close to making a better record than Speak and Spell. ---
**Author:** ![Kneepants\_Erasmus\_the\_Humanist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@Kneepants\_Erasmus\_the\_Humanist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kneepants_Erasmus_the_Humanist)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/57 "2004-03-30T23:27:41Z")
Thanks **Spiff**. I discovered that website recently…and I shall partake. My problem with Cut the Crap was not just the fact that it was a…um…crappy record. If they would have called themselves _anything_ but The Clash I would have bought the record…just for my collection if nothing else. “The Clash” should not exist without Mick Jones. To amend my analogy from earlier: If McCartney kicked Lennon out **and continued calling the band The Beatles.** That is just wrongwrongwrong. > [@](#): > > Husker Du - New Day Rising **vl\_mungo** : I think Flip Your Wig was an amazing record, and Candy Apple Grey also is really really good (with the exception of “Too Far Down” which I find entirely too depressing). I strongly suggest you give these two another chance. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/58 "2004-03-31T02:54:01Z")
Cher. She just won’t go away. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/59 "2004-03-31T03:06:58Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > **Renaissance** – after Keith Relf quit. I beg to differ. 😃 Pre-Annie Haslam Renaissance was a whole different band. Total personnel change. The Annie Haslam Renaissance jumped the shark with **Timeline."** ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143/60 "2004-03-31T03:43:01Z")
> [@hazel-rah](#): > > Depeche Mode jumped the shark when Vince Clarke left. Speak and Spell is their only really good album. They did manage some nice songs afterwards, but they never came close to making a better record than Speak and Spell. Everybody knows the only good song they ever did was _What’s Your Name?_ And **jarbabyj** , how come we’ve never talked Mode before? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-that-jumped-the-shark/237143.md?page=4)