# Bands where the drummer was seen as the weak link **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 2, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404 "2019-07-02T16:41:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/41 "2019-07-03T01:19:02Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Good grief, all this Beatles talk and no one thinks to mention The Monkees? > > Mickey Dolenz was a worst choice for drummer than any of the other three! > > From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkees#Independence): “producer Chip Douglas also had identified Dolenz’s drumming as the weak point in the collective musicianship of the quartet” Pish. Davy Jones was the weakest link in the Monkees in pretty much every category except cuteness. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/42 "2019-07-03T02:00:33Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Look. At no point did I equate these two things. I was replying to your post, but I was not arguing with it. My apologies if it came across that way. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/43 "2019-07-03T02:48:38Z")
Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/44 "2019-07-03T03:23:50Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Danny Seraphine was considered the weak link by his band-mates (Chicago). He was fired in 1990. The Chicago documentary I saw had the band-mates being less than complimentary on his drumming chops. Shocking that it took them ~23 years to figure that out( 1967-1990 ). I mean that is a long-ass time to carry a weak link :p. And through pretty much the height of their career at that. Eh, [he was fine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPZUgfOqAdg) if you ask me. The main criticism of his playing from his band mates was that he never adapted well to using electronic drum programming as support which was all the rage in the late 1980’s. But the _primary_ reason he got pushed out seems to have been infighting - he was a short-tempered guy who was also relatively straight and had dominated the band’s relationship with management post-Terry Kath when the rest of the band was sunk in a drugged-out haze. When they started to emerge from their self-inflicted funk they began to resent his attitude issues and failure to embrace the new performance style as above. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/45 "2019-07-03T03:44:36Z")
Danny Seraphine? Really?!? Guy was solid behind the kit. Not that it’s the best metric, but he made Rolling Stone’s Top 100 drummers of all time at #80. (Hey! And so did Densmore and Fishman, at #95 and #96 respectively.) I mean, rating musicians is kind of silly, but he’s a respected drummer. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/46 "2019-07-03T03:48:57Z")
One thing I’ve learned is: Don’t try to be your own drummer! Not sure this quite counts for this thread, but I remember buying a copy of Danny Kortchmar’s solo album KOOTCH. I found it in a cutout bin in the early 70s, and I should’ve kept it. The next time I looked it up, it was only available [as an expensive Japanese pressing](https://picclick.com/DANNY-KORTCHMAR-Kootch-RARE-JAPANESE-IMPORT-CD-THE-233197005229.html). Kortchmar was an excellent guitarist, and played on seemingly everyone’s folk-rock albums (James Taylor, Carole King, Jackson Browne, Linda Ronstadt, Warren Zevon, Harry Nilsson…) (and the Fugs!). So it made sense for him to do a solo album… Anyhow, I still can see the liner notes where he explained that he wanted really basic drumming on the album, but any real drummer would be bored and he was afraid that attitude would come through. So he found a drummer who would just do the basics, but with the enthusiasm of knowing he was doing the best he could. As you’ve probably guessed, he recruited himself as drummer. It showed. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/47 "2019-07-03T03:58:38Z")
[Here’s the Kootch playlist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EbRoECVW4w&list=PLjvQWcSg4DEKWQfFz6LuR9apKQUJTBArL) from Youtube. I’ve only listened here and there, but I don’t hear anything particularly egregiously _bad_ about the drumming. (I’m actually kinda diggin’ the side stick groove on “Up Jumped the Devil.”) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/48 "2019-07-03T04:12:25Z")
Danny Kortchmar was all over the late 1970s-early 1980s. I remember realizing that I had seen his name in other liner notes and going through my other records and tapes looking for his name and finding it over and over and over. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/49 "2019-07-03T04:38:50Z")
Definitely Ringo. He was fine for local gigs around Liverpool. He wasn’t a session drummer. Yet, he fell into that role as a Beatle. What ticks me off is he did nothing to get better. I saw an interview where he admitted there wasn’t a drum kit setup in his LA mansion during the last years of the Beatles. He mentioned not playing at all for weeks or even months. He had the $$$$$ and famous name to get advanced lessons from the very best drummers. He didn’t give a crap. He’s still never improved as a drummer because he’s just coasting on what he learned sixty years ago. It bothers me because I know first hand how every musician has to study and practice their entire life. You NEVER learn enough and you certainly NEVER master any instrument. Music is all about discovery and different ways to interpret music. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/50 "2019-07-03T05:01:21Z")
Johnny Ramone didn’t practice guitar ever once the Ramones were rolling, so I’d peg that as about 1976 or so. He played for 20 more years and even tho he couldn’t hold do 90% of what most guitarists today can do, he’s still rightly considered a helluva player. Technical chops aren’t the only thing. And Ringo was a helluva drummer. Ask anyone. Ask Stewart Copeland. Ask Chad Smith. Ringo was _asked_ to join the band because he was the best drummer around at the time. Metallica is prolly my favorite example band where the drummer is the obvious weak link. Lars is enthusiastic and competent, but that’s as far as I’ll go with superlatives for him. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/51 "2019-07-03T05:07:45Z")
I agree Ringo seems like the most approachable and down to earth Beatle. He seems to appreciate his fame and didn’t let it change him. He’s had many famous musicians join the Ringo Starr & His All-Starr Band. Some have even signed up to tour for multiple years. It must be a lot of fun. > **[Ringo Starr & His All-Starr Band](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringo_Starr_%26_His_All-Starr_Band)** > > Ringo Starr & His All-Starr Band is a live rock supergroup founded in 1989 with shifting personnel, led by former Beatles drummer and vocalist Ringo Starr. > Since 1989, Starr has toured with fourteen variations of the band, where "everybody on stage is a star in their own right". Ringo Starr and his All-Starr Band is a concept that was created by producer David Fishof. > The band has consistently toured for over three decades, and rotates its line-up depending on availability of musicians and a... Paul has recently played bass on some of Ringo’s records. Helping out a good mate. 😉 Says a lot about the friendship that still exists. > **[Singer Paul McCartney reunites with fellow Beatle Ringo Starr in the studio](https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2017/02/22/singer-paul-mccartney-reunites-with-fellow-beatle-ringo-starr-in-the-studio.html)** > > Pop royalty Beatles Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr reunited in the recording studio on Sunday (Feb 19), and they were joined at one point by former Eagles member Joe Walsh. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/52 "2019-07-03T05:08:25Z")
> [@Periwinkle](#): > > I remember reading that Steven Tyler (Aerosmith) is often very critical of Joey Kramer. I don’t know how Kramer is typically stacked up among rock drummers. Of course they have put up with each other for many years so maybe it’s in the nature of sibling squabbling. Anecdote: I’ve only seen Aerosmith live once, in 1988. Kramer’s “drum solo” consisted of him wandering around the stage with a pair of [these](https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/a573jj/hit_stix_christmas_list_1988/). I’m of the opinion that needing such a gimmick equates to a lack of talent… ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/53 "2019-07-03T05:54:32Z")
A very rock-solid drummer, Jim Gordon could be considered a weak link in whatever band he was in due to his mental instability, which eventually manifested itself in his inner voices instructing him to kill his mother by bashing in her head with a hammer. ---
**Author:** ![Scougs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scougs/32/3158_2.png) [@Scougs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scougs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/54 "2019-07-03T10:02:11Z")
Back to the very first post… People who say that the White Stripes should have had a better drummer than Meg clearly just don’t get the White Stripes. Jack specifically says he likes Meg’s drumming because she “drums like a little kid”, not despite it. I was lucky enough to see the White Stripes live eight times, in some pretty small venues. The electricity and connection between the two was a huge part of the magic. They didn’t do set lists - Jack would just do whatever he felt like, going off on tangents, dropping in unexpected cover versions, and Meg would sit there watching him like a hawk, anticipating his next move, and doing exactly what was required. A completely different skillset to technically skilled drummers. No Meg? No White Stripes. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/55 "2019-07-03T10:26:46Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > A very rock-solid drummer, Jim Gordon could be considered a weak link in whatever band he was in due to his mental instability, which eventually manifested itself in his inner voices instructing him to kill his mother by bashing in her head with a hammer. He did lay down that great piano track at the end of “Layla”, though. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/56 "2019-07-03T10:27:49Z")
Aye but he ripped it off from his girlfriend Rita Coolidge. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/57 "2019-07-03T10:55:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Aye but he ripped it off from his girlfriend Rita Coolidge. Did she ever claim that? Or was it just some guy who said. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/58 "2019-07-03T11:02:39Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Did she ever claim that? Or was it just some guy who said. Answered my own question…she did indeed say that. > **[Was Rita Coolidge Cheated Songwriting Credit on ‘Layla’? (Exclusive Memoir...](https://www.billboard.com/music/rock/rita-coolidge-layla-memoir-delta-lady-eric-clapton-derek-dominos-7318951/)** > > Over a long career in music, Rita Coolidge is known for her numerous hit songs and extensive studio work across pop, rock, country and more. Her place in history is secure, but even with a body of accomplishments dating back to the early ‘70s, one... ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/59 "2019-07-03T11:44:31Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I wish I was that unpopular. The man can still mount an extensive tour and draw the fans, in spite of your personal opinion of him. Not wishing to debate this, but his needing to mount an “extensive” tour is exactly the point. Back in 1989, as I remember it McCartney hadn’t played live with any regularity in the previous 10+ years, and so when he toured again, he was able to sell out huge arenas in the handful of select international world capitals like London, Tokyo or New York City for 8, 9, 10 shows in a row with ease. Now that he has been more or less contiunually touring since that time, he is playing towns like Lubbock, Missoula and Fargo, and when he plays New York City’s Madison Square Garden these days, it is for one or two nights, not nine. Of course you can draw a few fans when you play a city whose biggest annual event is normally Cousin Merle’s “Dress Up The Livestock In Sexy Lingerie” BBQ. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404/60 "2019-07-03T15:41:55Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Answered my own question…she did indeed say that. > > [Rita Coolidge Talks ‘Layla’ Credit in ‘Delta Lady’ Memoir: Exclusive | Billboard](https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/7318951/rita-coolidge-layla-memoir-delta-lady-eric-clapton-derek-dominos) I cant access your link so don’t know if the song is there, but if not, here is the song (“Time”)- and I agree with Rita! > **[time rita collidge - Search Videos](https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=time%2Brita%2Bcollidge&view=detail&mid=E80F76946DF90C13A89DE80F76946DF90C13A89D&FORM=VIRE)** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bands-where-the-drummer-was-seen-as-the-weak-link/836404.md?page=4)