Hm. I just opened a Bank of America count a few weeks ago. Why couldn’t you’ve gotten screwed during your *last *pay period? 
I call bullshit on that one! The government does not mandate bank fees. And you can’t bet your bippy the feds will not cry foul if a bank reverses said fees, in the name of fairness and good customer relations, when they can clearly see that the funds were deposited to cover the amounts in a reasonable period of time and that in the OP’s case, the snafu was not poor financial management on the part of the customer, but an unexpected, unusual failure of a recurring transaction.
Banks suck! Get thee to a credit union. Pronto!
Just for the record, I’m referring not to the bank’s exhorbinant interest fees, but to the federally-mandated practices regarding when transactions are posted to accounts, which is the real source of this guy’s angst. The fees are just irritations, the cherry on top of the real problem, which is a federally-mandated set of rules.
Get overdraft protection if you can. You have to pay interest on your bounced checks, but it’s usually mcuh less than the fees (if you cover it right away).
But a credit union is still best. Yes, banks (and I used to work at one) do a lot to increase fee revenue.
Another example is the order in which checks are processed. A lot of banks process the largest check first. So, if you have $50 in your account and write checks for $30, $20, $10, and $5, they’ll clear the checks in that order–leaving you with 2 bounced checks. If they did it in the reverse order, you’d only have one bounced check. The explanation given is that it helps you avoid bouncing important checks like those for your mortgage. But the fact that it brings in additional fee revenue can’t hurt.
If you have a premium account (usually those for high balance customers or those with multiple accounts), they’ll often waive the fees if you complain. Or they’ll give you immediate availability of funds. I have one of those accounts because I set it up as an employee and lifetime qualification was a perk of the job (I certainly don’t meet the balance requirements.) I can deposit a check and withdraw on it same day with my account. But they often won’t waive fees or make those arrangements for the little guy or even the average guy (unless, like me, they qualified as employees).
When I was in the business, we were told repeatedly that most customers weren’t profitable for the bank. So we tried to bring in the high balance (or high debt) customers and get more fee revenue from the others.
Do you have any other accounts with BofA like a credit card or car loan? If so, you may be able to call up, explain that you do a lot of business with them, and ask to have the fees removed. Sometimes it happens.
Credit unions are frequently more accomodating.
Cite?
A $33 OD fee, which BTW is what is pissing them off, IS NOT federally mandated. The rest of the “fuck you” bank attitude when explaining posting times and dates isn’t mandated either.
The OP mentioned making the deposit in cash.
When I make a deposit in cash it is available to my account from that moment. I can use my debit card, wite a check, or withdraw it from an ATM immediately upon leaving the bank.
I’ve done it, on numerous occasions, even BEFORE switching to a credit union which doesn’t use these predatory practices.
Therefore if it is Federally mandated, then it is not enforced, but I too call Bullshit. If it’s federally mandated, then present the mandate for all to see.
Personally I believe the claim that it is federally mandated is a bullshit line they feed you at the bank whenever they are guilty of doing something unscrupulous. It’s a tactic used by racketeers and scam artists in order to make you think there is some unquestionable authority behind these actions.
Banks suck, and as long as they are run by Money Groping FatKat Robber Baron Rat Bastards they always will.
Bullshit.
I can tell you from personal experience that’s not true. My NEW bank credits my cash deposits immediately for example. Furthermore now that they know me I’ve had non-cash deposits credited the same day as well. In both cases, I’m talking about deposits made around 4:00 or 5:00. I love my new smaller bank, where they give me personal service. I was at the deposit table today filling out a deposit slip, and the teller told me to come on over, that she’d fill it out for me!
Now compare that when I banked with SunTrust (One of the big 3 of most hated banks by me. The other two are BofA and Wachovia). I went through the drive thru at Suntrust around 2:30 pm. I didn’t have a deposit slip. I asked the drive through teller to send me one. She said I had to come inside and get one myself.
OK, I can understand that policy if there are a line of cars behind you. I mean how selfish would I be to expect people to wait behind me while I fill out a deposit slip in the drive thru? But my God, I was THE ONLY CAR in a FOUR LANE drive through service!
She wouldn’t budge. So I got out of my car (leaving it parked in the drive thru lane), went inside and got a deposit slip, and went back out to my car and filled it out, and deposited my money. Fuckers. Within a month I moved a checking account, A savings account, a money market account, and my kids’ checking and money market accounts to another bank. Not only am I much happier about moving to a different bank, but my money market account is paying 2.6%! I haven’t found ANYBODY that can touch that on a money market account. (It’s Bank of North Georgia for you Atlanta Dopers. They’re great!)
E3
Just for the record, you are correct that Title VI (Expedited Funds Availability) of the Competitive Equality Banking Act of 1987 sets forth maximum limits on funds availability for the banking industry (that apparently BofA followed to the tee in this case). But the key phrase here is: maximum limits. If you were more forthcoming in your blanket statement that the OP’s complaints were “federally mandated,” you would also have noted Sec. 607(c)(1):
Obviously, the banks don’t have to hold the funds for the EFA-specified limits, they just can’t hold them longer. Aha! So it is the banks policy to hold the funds for the federally allowed time limit.
Further, Sec. 608(a)(1) states:
Can you, with any certainty, be sure that Crunchy Frog’s state doesn’t require cash deposits to be made available immediately? One has to wonder why the purpose of withholding cash deposits from the depositor supposedly protects the banking industry and consumers. Wait. It *doesn’t * protect consumers. It allows the banking industry to utilize this cash, interest-free, in other profitable services such as loans to other customers (or other unprofitable things like unhappy customers liquidating their accounts). Aggregate all these daily cash deposits from every branch and we’re talking a hefty chunk of change that nobody but the bank can touch. All courtesy of the feds.
The real answer to the question of “Why can’t I make a cash deposit to cover my debits?” is this: “Because if we do it the fair way, we don’t get to use your interest-free loan to us…I mean, money, for our benefit nor would we be able to extort fees from you. Oh, and the feds let us. Sure, BofA can see that this really isn’t your fault, and you tried to fix the problem before it became worse. But you seem to think that $66 means more to you than BofA and I’m sorry to inform you, you’re wrong. That $66 means far more to BofA than reasonable customer service and fairness could ever mean. It’s pure profit, man!”
The point here is that the bank is being predatory and using any means necessary to maximize their profits. It’s wrong. Just like overdraft protection loans with exhorbitant, undisclosed interest “fees” are wrong. Just like selectively processing debits in the order that most benefits the bank by maximizing fee income is wrong. Just like freezing funds not applicable to pending checks is wrong. Just like seizing accounts to extort fee income from Social Security recipients is wrong. The feds are a step behind the times but eventually consumer dissatisfaction and the outrage of their constituents will convince legislators to open their eyes to the atrocities.
And one of these days big banks will pay for appearing all nice, gray alien-like in their fucking ads but really turning out to be evil ass-weasels, with a hundred rows of teeth and a bad accent, bent on wiping out all intelligent life on the planet. What I wouldn’t give to be squashing bankers myself…
From www.bankrate.com
Deposit Float: Legal “holdups”
“Biggest first” check clearing policies and regulations
I hate to come in here and just throw in a couple of links, to be honest I didn’t read all of it, but it looked like pertinent information. I use that site to check bank rates, it has been very useful. Maybe you will find it useful and informative as well.
The Federal Reserve Board’s Banking Regulations are a little tougher to sort through.
I’d normally chime in with all of the credit union suggestions. I’ve been a supporter of credit unions for years, all the moreso since the banking industry’s pets on Capitol Hill tried (and failed) to kill credit unions about a decade ago.
But. But…
Right now, I’m in the middle of a dispute with my credit union which has racked up three $42 “convenience fees” on my primary checking account because of a single debit transaction which they know was unauthorized and fraudulent and which was actually credited back before they started hitting me with fees. My position is that since I was the victim of a fraud – albeit one that was reversed – I shouldn’t have been subject to fees to begin with. $126 and seven weeks later, I’m still fighting.
This is the third time in five years I’ve had to have a fight with them over some stupid problem with debit card transactions that they’ve fouled up.
When it comes to keeping hold of money to which they think they’re entitled, credit unions (especially big ones) can be just as ruthless and faceless as banks. (Especially if they’re attached to a company or industry that’s flagging, like an airline.) If you can join one that’s attached to a prosperous community you might be okay but otherwise, don’t run to a credit union on the misinformed belief that they’re bastions of customer-centric policies and treatment, because despite their “we’re all about our members” rhetoric, when pennies hit the pavement it’s not necessarily so.
Wow. Didn’t think this would get so much attention. I’m going to try to address the things I’ve seen:
I have overdraft protection, that’s what the $33 fees were. So the checks technically didn’t bounce, but I have to pay $33 per overdrawn transaction.
I had a credit union account before, but switched to BofA for the convenience of locations. :rolleyes:
I don’t know what’s federally mandated or not, but thanks all for links and information, we’ll definitely be looking into the banks a little more this time than the time when I said, “Hey there’s a BofA a block away from my house in any direction, I’ll bank there!”
Normally, funds are transferred from savings to checking to cover this sort of thing (with a $10 transfer fee per transaction), but we used our savings earlier in the month for a family vacation to Florida (which slacker’s been bugging me to post about since I had a little run-in - or should I say swim-in - with some sea life).
I will be showing the school’s HR and accounting departments copies of the bank statement and show them how this would have been avoided if I’d been paid when I was supposed to have been paid, and suggest that someone [cough]theschool[/cough] owes me $66 to cover the fees that shouldn’t have occurred in the first place.
We are shopping for extra large cookie jars to keep our money in this weekend.
I just want to state for the record that we do have a savings , and it usually covers us if we ever become over drawn. Of course there is a fee for this protection, we can’t assume that having our own money transfered from one account to another to keep from getting hit with a fee with a simple push of a button, should cost us nothing. :rolleyes: It’s my fucking money!! It is there to protect us from getting hit with more fees!! Why should I pay you a fee because I utilize my over draft protection?
We are not disputing the over draft fees. We became over drawn due to Crunchy’s payroll check that was supposed to have been deposited on last Friday. What we are upset about was the fact that two transactions went thru our account not only after 2pm that day, but before midnite of 8/3,and when asked why this happened, the only thing that cow* could tell me was that it posted after midnite. I pointed out to her that the date was the 3rd , she interrupted me and said that it posted after midnite, that I wasn’t listening to her. When I told her she wasn’t listening to me and refusing to acknowledge what I was presenting to her,that the date on the posted transaction said the 2nd, she stayed her platform and repeated her answer….”It posted at midnite.”
Why is it that my cash deposit was not credited to my account until Wed. Showed as pending but no funds were available, but they can take out monies at all times of the day and night, and it counts immediately?? And why the fuck is my cash deposit pending?? It is cash!!! There is nothing to verify. It went from my hand to theirs. I didn’t go to the ATM , I walked into the bank, up to a teller and handed her my cash and deposit slip. I knew it was after 2, and that even tho it was cash it would appear on Tues, but it was still pending until yesterday!!
cow= This is not to offend any bovine contigents that may be reading/posting here today. This is just my way of saying “Bitch”. And FTR the Bank cow was a petite thing, so its not a weight thing either. :rolleyes:
If you made the transfer yourself, you wouldn’t incur any fees.
What gets me is when you put cash in,if a cheque is presented at the same time,then the cash won’t become available till the cheque has cleared.So the money is in the bank,but you still can’t get it 
:eek: Gee, I have the same thing, but they only charge me $5 when that happens.
Which is very seldom, but $33 is nuts.
First of all, thank you Sharky for posting those links. I had meant to post them in my last, but got a little carried away in the spirit of things. Bankrate.com has been very useful to me as well and I highly recommend the site to anyone who wants to understand the industry better and find services with which they can be happy.
TeaElle, any contribution showing the flip side of all these glowing reports of credit unions (my own experiences included) is valuable. I’m sure there are some CUs out there who are getting bolder about mimicking banking trends as CUs recognize the enormous profits to be made. They’re walking a fine line though because they don’t necessarily have the investments to afford to alienate their members with such rigid policies. IMHO, CUs tend to offer more individualized, and therefore, more reasonable service to its members than do banks. My CU gives me the impression that they want to help me as much as I want to help myself. They don’t treat me like a bottomless pit of pure profit like my last two banks did. (For instance, there is no fee for transferring money between my savings and checking accounts.) As with anything else, YMMV. It’s really important for people to do the research and shop for a financial institution that gives them the services that are most important to them. For that, bankrate.com helps.
OTOH, I don’t fault anyone for complaining that banks are rip-off artists. It’s quite obvious that even when they stick to the law, they’re all about getting what they can out of every customer, be they turnip or not. For banks the most profitable customers are the low-income variety because they are the ones that are paying the highest interest rates, the most fees and the using the fewest services. Banks don’t have to work real hard to make lots of money off the backs of those who can least afford it.
FWIW, I sympathize with Crunchy Frog and store-clerk-slacker, because they’ve been dope-slapped by the system. Sorry to say, everything the bank did was legal (for now), but fair is a whole other sack of potatoes for which BofA isn’t in the market. Whether you think it was fair and represents the kind of customer service you expect should dictate whether you remain BofA’s cash cow. Vote with your feet and wallet. Realize, though, that this type of attitude is not singular to BofA; it’s rampant in the industry. And the feds allow it. So don’t forget to let your local representatives know that you disapprove of their tactics.
There are credit unions and smaller banks that have shunned this method of doing business. You just need to find one and know ahead of time what you’re getting yourself into. You’re right, Crunchy Frog. Getting the most for your money requires more thought than just, “Oh hey, that bank’s convenient.” Sorry you had to learn that the hard way. You’re not alone.
Crunchy Frog, here’s what you should know about overdraft protection. Banks see it as win-win! Don’t like it? Tell the FDIC!
store-clerk-slacker, you should be disputing those fees (see above links). What you’re disputing is activity allowed by the government. You’ll probably lose if you fight BofA on that. Overdraft protection is essentially a LOAN! The fee represents interest on that loan at a tune of hundreds of percentage points. Here’s the skinny:
DAY 1: You put funds in a bank account. The bank holds the funds anywhere from one to five days (perfectly legal).
You spend the funds before it is released from the bank (otherwise known as “the float”).
DAY 2: Bank receives debits prior to releasing funds on those debits.
Bank “loans” you funds to cover those debits and remits payment on debits.
Bank charges you fees (essentially, interest) on those loans because you still don’t have available funds (they’re on hold) to cover those “fees.”
DAY 3-5: Funds hold is finally released and is credited to your account. Funds are used first by bank to recover the loans and the fees on your floated debits.
Your account balance is the amount you deposited less debits and interest fees to bank. If less than $0, you incur more fees on a daily basis (interest) until another deposit large enough to cover recurring fees is made.
This is all legal, remember. Now, do you understand how they managed to screw you over?
I forgot to add something about the dating that seems to be upsetting you. Financial institutions will not (and cannot) “hold” debits. The day they get it is the day they process it. But it’s done in batches so everything that came in that day is actually posted at the end of the day (i.e., midnight, if that’s when their program processes the batch).
So, they probably got the debits on the 2nd and the batch was processed at midnight (technically the 3rd, but the batch was from the 2nd). Therefore, you wouldn’t see it posted to your account until the 3rd.
The 2pm time applies to business hours (as defined in the Expedited Funds Availability title) and is crucial to how deposits are processed. That’s the cut-off time for the business day. Anything before 2pm is that business day. Anything after 2pm is the next business day. So a cash deposit made before 2pm must be made available by the start of business on the next business day. A cash deposit made after 2pm is actually made on the next business day and becomes available at the start of business on the next business day which two days later, not one. Does that make sense?
So the cash deposit that was made at 4pm on Monday is not released until the start of business on Wednesday. Even though you’re ATM slip says you’ve made the deposit, the funds on that deposit will not be used to cover any debits or be available for withdrawal until its released from hold.
Why hold cash? Let’s say it together: Because. They. Can.
I would be quite surprised if the “Legal Disclaimer” link on the online banking page didn’t have a spiffied-up version of that exact statement, and that the online information is meant for advisory purposes only. I would also be surprised if they didn’t have it in some on-paper form that they got when they signed up for the service.
See, now that explanation is clear and understandable. Had the bank-lady explained things to us that way as opposed to just repeating, “It posted at midnight,” I would’ve walked away with a better understanding of the situation. She never explained why going through at midnight would show it as posting on the 2nd and not the 3rd. When we asked, “If it posted at midnight, why is it dated for the 2nd and not the 3rd?” Her response was, “Because it went through at midnight.” How does that answer our question? Anyway, thanks for at least clearing that part up, Cinnamon Girl.
See, we walked in with no idea of what had happened, other than my direct deposit didn’t go through. Had a bank representative given us this sort of information, I would’ve understood why the debits had gone through before the cash (even if the cash had posted on the same business day it was deposited, which would have been Tuesday).
And FTR, I don’t think BofA owes me any money for what happened, and I don’t think they did anything illegal. If anything, I think my work should own up to the fees, since it was their direct deposit that didn’t go in when it was supposed to. They complaints about holding the cash and stuff was just me ranting, bitching, and whining cuz I didn’t think it was fair.
Any time someone mentions Bank of America, the first thing I can say is ‘check out what the Better Business Bureau has on them.’ Because I got screwed so royally by BOA that I will NEVER bother with them again.
From the BBB website (www.bbb.org)
Closed Complaints
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in the last 36 months: 897
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in the last 12 months: 625
Credit or Billing Issues - 531
Number in the last 12 months - 369
Outcome of all complaints:
474 - Closed as Resolved.
57 - Closed when the company made every reasonable effort to resolve the dispute.
Any bank that has THAT many complaints in the past 12 months (and this is only the report from the home office location) is questionable, in my mind. By the way, every teller I ever went to at BOA has told me that credits are processed before debits, but that never happened once in my 6 years of banking with them. They are lying sacks, I tell you.