# Bank of America to Charge for Debit Cards **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 29, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034 "2011-09-29T17:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Rex\_Goliath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bcef8e/32.png) [@Rex\_Goliath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rex_Goliath)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/181 "2011-10-03T20:02:12Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > So what does your bank offer that my credit union doesn’t? My work doesn’t offer direct deposit, but my bank (Chase) has an app for iPhone that lets me deposit checks by taking a picture of them. It’s literally the only reason I chose the bank I did. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/182 "2011-10-04T00:01:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. I agree that terms of a contract can violate public policy and be voided on that basis, too. But I don’t agree that processing transactions in a specific order should reach that bar. But, if I’m not mistaken, one of the more common situations for finding a contract unconscionable is hiding the true cost of something. It seems that reordering debit amounts amounts is exactly that. At least to me. I’d bet, but I admit I don’t know, that the part about reordering debits is very far away from the part listing the fees in banks’ contracts with depositors. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/183 "2011-10-04T01:23:24Z")
> [@](#): > > …But I don’t agree that processing transactions in a specific order should reach that bar. I do so love a carefully chosen word. A “specific order”, indeed. An artificial order, a contrived order, for no other purpose but to penalize the consumer. Unleash Elizabeth Warren! ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/184 "2011-10-04T11:01:53Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I see that some people are questioning the purpose of the restriction on interchange fees. > > For me, it’s pretty obvious, and illustrated by this question. Have you ever made a decision on what card or what bank to use because of the interchange fee? Of course you haven’t - nobody ever has. So you have a situation where the large banks can charge retailers high fees with the retailer having little to no options (these are all handled by a very small number of interchange operators, IIRC) and the consumer not even being aware of it. > > Now, those fees are limited. Instead, the consumer is faced with paying the cost of his transaction directly, rather than through a third-party interchange that he has no control over, and likely no knowledge of. Suddenly banks are actually competing for customers in a true free market - not taking profits through a non-competitive interchange system. > > Or, put another way, if BOA loses customers because of this fee and a credit union or small bank picks up new ones, isn’t this exactly the type of free-market activity that is a good thing? This is much of the story. The problem is the Visa/Mastercard duopoly in the US. V/MC issuers have been steadily raising their interchange fees on debit products for the past fifteen years or so while effectively forcing merchants to use their pet processors (i.e., STAR), who have also raised their prices. So merchants who accept debit have been squeezed on both the issuing and the processing side. Breaking the market power of the V/MC associations requires intervention in the relationship between them, the issuing banks, and the processors. This move will actually allow merchants to choose their processors instead of getting bullied into one by the associations. This is a great thing for, say, the owner of a dry cleaner. That working man will have some of his margins restored. Debit card processing will have to be as competitive as it is in Europe, where V/MC’s back has already been broken by anti-trust actions. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/185 "2011-10-05T04:35:49Z")
Every time one of these threads pop up I can’t help but think my understanding of banks is deeply flawed. I thought the deal was I give a bank all my money in the world and they turn around and make some money off that shit by investing and making loans. In return, I know my money is safe and don’t have to worry about armed bandits flipping my mattress. The extra stuff is bullshit to entice me to put my load in their vault and not some other vault. If their carrot ain’t profitable, they should fuck off and not bother. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/186 "2011-10-05T04:45:12Z")
Because banking is boring! Nobody wants to be a banker, they want to be investment houses, financiers! In the deep water with the big fish. Banker misuses a few thousand dollars of somebody else’s money, he goes to jail. Investment houses can lose _millions_ of dollars of other people’s money and take a cut. No contest. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/187 "2011-10-05T05:57:52Z")
Bernie Sanders asked Bernanke today why they permit banks to jack interest rates up to 30 percent. He wanted to know how they escape usury charges and whether the Fed had plans to deal with that. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/188 "2011-10-05T23:11:46Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Every time one of these threads pop up I can’t help but think my understanding of banks is deeply flawed. > > I thought the deal was I give a bank all my money in the world and they turn around and make some money off that shit by investing and making loans. In return, I know my money is safe and don’t have to worry about armed bandits flipping my mattress. > > The extra stuff is bullshit to entice me to put my load in their vault and not some other vault. If their carrot ain’t profitable, they should fuck off and not bother. I think it’s that the “deal” is a bit more complicated. The bank takes your money and keeps it safe, but there are costs to them. They pay insurance on deposits, have systems expense for enabling, processing, tracking, and reporting your transactions, expenses for producing statements (and mailing them if you don’t have estatements), costs for employees to service your accounts, etc. And, right now, they’re not making a lot of money off of deposits. Interest rates and earnings on investments are very low. Plus, banks just aren’t making many loans. I know there’s a debate about that’s because banks won’t lend or because demand is low (housing and auto sales are in the doldrums, etc.), but the bottom line is there aren’t many loans being made and those that are closed are at very low interest rates. They were making money on non interest income, but now not as much because the amount of interchange income has been cut. Add that to the fact that they’re aren’t making the desired returns on loans or investments and there’s less of an incentive for them to attract deposits, particularly for transaction accounts like checking where the costs are higher (as are the insurance requirements, IIRC). ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/189 "2011-10-05T23:42:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. That is why I said “should.” I am expressing my opinion about what the law should be. I recognize the law favors your view now. You should be more clear when you are stating something like that. Your opinion has weight with regard to the legal system. Justifiably, so. > [@](#): > > Yes, they can have. However, in recent years, the trend has been to write terms more simply. I just got a new cardmember agreement from American Express, for example, and it is not written in what I would characterize as legalese. So you were in favor of the recent laws that went into place that forced Amex to simplify their language? > [@](#): > > So I am not prepared to conclude that the specific agreement here was not understandable to a lay reader. You’re a smart guy. And you have experience in the field. Many people are inexperienced and aren’t as smart as you are. Do you think that people who are slightly subnormal (but not disabled) should have fewer legal protections than you do? Turn it around, if there were random remote controlled aircraft flying around 6’2" above the ground. Do you think that just because you are 5’8", that no one should care about the tall people with the head lacerations? I suppose tall people could work out their thighs so they could duckwalk everywhere. That is the best analogy I’ve written all week. 😃 > [@](#): > > Well, my primary OS at home is one of two Linux distros, but yes: I do read all the user terms before I click yes. Why wouldn’t I? Why use Linux? I’m actually curious, I assume you’re not the kind of nerd who’d get off fucking with it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/190 "2011-10-06T00:15:41Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Why use Linux? I’m actually curious, I assume you’re not the kind of nerd who’d get off fucking with it. The latest version of Ubuntu Linux requires very little “fucking with,” and just about everything can be done using fairly straightforward GUI-type applications. It’s really no more complicated than using Windows, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/191 "2011-10-06T00:25:06Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The latest version of Ubuntu Linux requires very little “fucking with,” and just about everything can be done using fairly straightforward GUI-type applications. It’s really no more complicated than using Windows, for the most part. Yeah, but does a major computer retailer sell them? I just didn’t picture Bricker as a guy who’d build his own systems or shop for a computer anyplace other than a Costco or Bestbuy. I picture him puffing a cigar while the proles install it at his utterly pretentious desk. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sri\_Theo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Sri\_Theo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sri_Theo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/192 "2011-10-06T13:57:08Z")
I’m going to be that arsehole that doesn’t read most of the thread but comments anyway. Has anyone mentioned that we have the same regulations in the UK? In fact they’re more stringent, they have to process payment’s received on the same day before debits. We still don’t have charges for current accounts. It can be confusing when you buy and return something on the same day and the refund is posted before the payment! ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/193 "2011-10-06T14:47:03Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Debit card processing will have to be as competitive as it is in Europe, where V/MC’s back has already been broken by anti-trust actions. Thanks for the backup on my perceived reason for the change. It’s good to hear that similar action has produced desirable free-market results elsewhere. I think it’s always preferable to make the user of the service aware of the cost rather than hiding it in a third-party. This is an argument I often hear from conservatives so I’m a bit surprised to see some of them taking the opposite approach here and advocating for third-party payment of debit-card costs, particularly when those costs are levied by a duopoly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/194 "2011-10-06T15:16:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Yeah, but does a major computer retailer sell them? I just didn’t picture Bricker as a guy who’d build his own systems or shop for a computer anyplace other than a Costco or Bestbuy. > > I picture him puffing a cigar while the proles install it at his utterly pretentious desk. 😃 My undergraduate degree is in computer science and I was a math major for two years before I switched majors into CS. At home, I use a Fedora desktop (with Gnome) and a Jolicloud laptop. Because my wife is a Windows user, she has a Win7 Pro desktop and laptop, and I run a Windows Server 2008 domain with two VMs that serve as the DCs – other VMs include an Ubuntu machine running MySQL, all on VMWare’s ESX host. The Linux boxes run Samba and can authenticate to the Windows DS using LDAP, and pass-thru authentication using Kerberos. My son’s room has a Win X Pro machine and my mom (who lives with us) has her own Win 7 domain machine, so I can distribute patches and maintain what amounts to a single-sign-on solution throughout the house. Never assume without facts. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/195 "2011-10-06T15:35:00Z")
> [@Rex\_Goliath](#): > > My work doesn’t offer direct deposit, but my bank (Chase) has an app for iPhone that lets me deposit checks by taking a picture of them. It’s literally the only reason I chose the bank I did. My credit union has had that feature for over 2 years. ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/196 "2011-10-07T05:10:17Z")
My boy Joe Biden finally saw this thread and decided to pile on… [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/06/joe-biden-bank-america-tone-deaf\_n\_998055.html](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/06/joe-biden-bank-america-tone-deaf_n_998055.html) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/197 "2011-10-07T10:22:52Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > My credit union has had that feature for over 2 years. USAA has it too. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/198 "2011-10-07T13:49:15Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > USAA has it too. That’s actually who I bank with, though they arernt technically a Credit Union. Digital Credit Union has had the service just as long, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/199 "2011-10-07T17:03:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My undergraduate degree is in computer science and I was a math major for two years before I switched majors into CS. At home, I use a Fedora desktop (with Gnome) and a Jolicloud laptop. Because my wife is a Windows user, she has a Win7 Pro desktop and laptop, and I run a Windows Server 2008 domain with two VMs that serve as the DCs – other VMs include an Ubuntu machine running MySQL, all on VMWare’s ESX host. The Linux boxes run Samba and can authenticate to the Windows DS using LDAP, and pass-thru authentication using Kerberos. My son’s room has a Win X Pro machine and my mom (who lives with us) has her own Win 7 domain machine, so I can distribute patches and maintain what amounts to a single-sign-on solution throughout the house. > > Never assume without facts. Well you have to assume without facts. If you had facts, there would be no assumption. I trust you exempt yourself from that rule, since you believe in Christianity and there are no facts supporting its supernatural claims, right? In any case, I’m glad you aren’t the total one dimensional piece of shit I thought you were. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034/200 "2011-10-07T20:26:38Z")
> [@badlyburnttoast](#): > > Well what did you expect would happen when a whole bunch of new regulations were implemented on how the banks could make money? \*\*Did you think they would just roll over and be happy with less? \*\*Of course not, they find new ways to make money. You limit the amount they can make on debit card transaction fees, they start charging the consumer extra for using the debit card instead. They should though. They don’t need to always be making as much money as they do now. Just make less, the end. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-of-america-to-charge-for-debit-cards/598034.md?page=11)