# Bank teller told me if a store keeps a counterfeit bill they "don't have to report the loss." Huh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322 "2012-09-01T00:37:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/21 "2012-09-01T20:13:38Z")
It is song and dance when the clerk sighs, holds it up, and stares at it for 30 seconds. I don’t believe half of them know what they’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/22 "2012-09-02T03:34:49Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Those pens are either security theater or simple fraud. They work by using iodine to detect starch (which causes iodine to change color). Cheap copy paper is made with starch, and the paper used in banknotes doesn’t, but it’s trivially easy for counterfeiters to use starchless paper or for anyone like James Randi to demonstrate false positives by spraying real bills with laundry starch. Any fake bills made with paper that would react to one of those pens isn’t likely to look or feel much like real currency anyway. Regular paper is made from wood fibers. US paper currency is printed on paper made from 75% cotton and 25% linen (made from flax). It’s more of a cloth than what you would think of as traditional paper. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/23 "2012-09-02T04:25:57Z")
The lady is nuts. The store _wants_ to report the loss, in order to claim it as a deduction from income. After all, it’s NOT income, and shouldn’t be taxed as such. Why a store would want to avoid that is beyond me, unless it’s as someone above suggested: to let the bill back into circulation. Of course, that be dishonest, and cheating one’s customers. But it can’t be what she meant given that she marked the bill fake. My professional diagnosis is that she’s a flake, and really doesn’t have a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/24 "2012-09-02T06:19:56Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > … > > Of course, that be dishonest Got that. > [@](#): > > and cheating one’s customers. … Didn’t get this. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/25 "2012-09-02T07:08:33Z")
Putting it back in circulation, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/26 "2012-09-02T09:00:48Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Didn’t get this. If it’s going back into circulation, it’s by means of change to a customer who may well get stuck with it when some other establishment detects it as counterfeit. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/27 "2012-09-03T08:24:47Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So what’s the point of that? Are the cashier’s supposed to have a training session where they examine the bill for defects so that if a similar bill comes in, they can reject it? > > If I’m a store owner, I would rather have counterfeit money out of my hands, to the Secret Service, instead of having some half-assed training scheme which would likely end up with one of my 16 year old minimum wage clerks rejecting legitimate bills and pissing customers off. > > As other posters have said, no matter what, you are out the value of the fake bill. Why wouldn’t you want to report that as a loss for tax purposes? Yes, exactly. Loss for tax purposes? A $20 bill? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lavasoap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lavasoap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lavasoap)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/28 "2012-09-03T09:50:39Z")
Chalk me up as one of the people who can make no sense of the teller’s actions. I would just let it go cause the nice guy in me doesn’t want to see the woman screwed over something soo small when it doesn’t appear like she has anything to gain. Just sticking to proper procedure (requiring the forms be filled out) should safeguard you ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/29 "2012-09-03T12:25:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No. What she was very likely doing (and this is common) is giving the bill back so it could be posted up so that other cashiers would be alerted. > > In practice, if _the store_ does this for a short time, before turning it in, the Secret Service looks the other way. I don’t understand this post, because I am not sure what it means by “posted up.” ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/30 "2012-09-03T12:34:28Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I don’t understand this post, because I am not sure what it means by “posted up.” Stores often post copies of counterfeit bills (along with names of people who write bad checks) at the cashier’s booth. Stores ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/31 "2012-09-03T12:36:50Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Stores often post copies of counterfeit bills (along with names of people who write bad checks) at the cashier’s booth. > Stores Oh! Duh. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/32 "2012-09-03T19:57:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Loss for tax purposes? A $20 bill? :dubious: Well, the till shows that you had $X+$20 in receipts that day. After finding a counterfeit $20, you really only had $X receipts that day. Sure, it’s only a $6 or $7 tax savings, but multiply that times all other losses due to whatever during the year, it adds up. I was just confused as to why the teller wanted the OP to keep the bill so the store wouldn’t “have” to report the loss. If I’m a business owner, I want to report the loss. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/33 "2012-09-03T20:10:25Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Sure, it’s only a $6 or $7 tax savings, but multiply that times all other losses due to whatever during the year, it adds up. Six or seven dollars! Really? If you add in payroll taxes and such, sales tax paid on things the business purchases, I can see a business taxes being maybe a third of their revenue, but most of those aren’t revenue dependent. Surely there’s no way a business gets a six or seven dollar savings off a $20 write off! ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/34 "2012-09-03T20:19:58Z")
A hijack question on how currency markets, which I have trouble understanding. I own a store and get chumped on a $100 bill. I sell it to my employee for $50, figuring at least I’ll salvage $50. He goes ahead and find another person who wants to unload a false $100 (in legal currency) for a real $60, so they clear $10. What are possible scenarios as that bill moves through the two worlds of currency 1 and currency 2? I’m sure as shootin’ that this shows a basic concept in trading. Maybe the “finding another person” part costs some amount of (real= currency 1) money, or the $100 false currency (which of course still has value in the currency2 ) has been traded out as a loan that has not been paid back, etc. etc. I know this is kindergarten stuff, but it is too slippery for my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/35 "2012-09-03T20:20:51Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > No, not illegal. It becomes illegal when you fraudulently attempt to spend it (or make some). > [@Loach](#): > > No it’s not illegal to just have a counterfeit bill. You guys are close, but missing an important subtlety. Mere possession of counterfeit currency is a violation of [18 USC 472](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/472) if there’s any indicia of fraudulent intent. Case law has defined the intent requirement broadly enough that possession can get you convicted pretty easily. Basically if you’re not on your way to report it when you’re caught with it, you can be convicted under section 472. My crim law professor always used counterfeit currency in his hypotheticals involving contraband, to eliminate any ambiguity about whether the item was considered contraband (e.g. “did the defendant have a permit for the handgun?”), and to avoid the baggage attached to drugs (e.g. “was the neighborhood where the defendant was caught with the crack considered a ‘high crime neighborhood’ for purposes of probable cause?”). ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/36 "2012-09-03T20:27:30Z")
Made a mistake previous post. Should be “he clears $10,” rather than “they clear.” ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322/37 "2012-09-09T15:48:11Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Six or seven dollars! Really? If you add in payroll taxes and such, sales tax paid on things the business purchases, I can see a business taxes being maybe a third of their revenue, but most of those aren’t revenue dependent. Surely there’s no way a business gets a six or seven dollar savings off a $20 write off! Assuming the corporation pays a 39.6% (let’s call it 40%) tax rate on its profits, if it’s profits drop by $20, then it’s tax bill drops by 40% of that $20, or $8. Am I missing something? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bank-teller-told-me-if-a-store-keeps-a-counterfeit-bill-they-dont-have-to-report-the-loss-huh/633322.md?page=1)