# Banks laundering terrorist and drug gang money **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576 "2012-07-18T00:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/1 "2012-07-18T00:48:39Z")
It’s just business, right: > [@](#): > > A report compiled for the committee detailed how HSBC’s subsidiaries transported billions of dollars of cash in armoured vehicles, cleared suspicious travellers’ cheques worth billions, and allowed Mexican drug lords buy to planes with money laundered through Cayman Islands accounts. > > Other subsidiaries moved money from Iran, Syria and other countries on US sanctions lists, and helped a Saudi bank linked to al-Qaida to shift money to the US. > **[HSBC 'sorry' for aiding Mexican drugs lords, rogue states and terrorists](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/17/hsbc-executive-resigns-senate)** > > Executive quits in front of US Senate as bank faces massive fines for 'horrific' lapses that resulted in laundering money for drugs cartels and pariah states Words really do fail me on this one. On the one hand we have people giving their lives in a decades long war against drugs - no matter how absurd that whole (WAD) notion is, it’s still Gov policy. And on the other we have banks basically too big to worry about failing, too big to worry about fixing LIBOR, and now to big to worry about the criminal law. But wait, if I laundered money for a terrorist group I’m going to be behind bars for pretty much the rest of my life - is what HSBC did actually illegal? > [@](#): > > The bank has been under investigation for nearly a decade, and faces a massive fine from the US justice department for lapses in its safeguards. A fione? A FINE? For laundering $ billions for terrorists and drug gangs… What the hell is going on in the world? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/2 "2012-07-18T03:54:48Z")
I guess where I would start is to look at whatever statute was violated and ask if the punishment specified is for more than a “fione”. I mean, maybe it is. But that’s where I would start. It’s possible that is all the justice department has as an enforcement mechanism. Not claiming that I have any knowledge of this particular statute… just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/3 "2012-07-18T04:23:17Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > A fione? A FINE? For laundering $ billions for terrorists and drug gangs… What the hell is going on in the world? Peter King laundered hundreds of thousands of dollars for terrorists and he’s in _Congress_. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/4 "2012-07-18T04:55:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Peter King laundered hundreds of thousands of dollars for terrorists and he’s in _Congress_. Shit, he _raised_ money for the terrorists, he didn’t just launder it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/5 "2012-07-18T05:26:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Peter King laundered hundreds of thousands of dollars for terrorists and he’s in _Congress_. Got a cite? I know nothing about this but would love to learn. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/6 "2012-07-18T05:36:14Z")
There have been a few cases of banks foreclosing on houses they did not actually own the mortgages to. If they can’t be bothered to keep track of which houses they own, how could you expect them to know which cartel’s money they were taking? ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/7 "2012-07-18T05:58:16Z")
In this case, they knew exactly what they were doing. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/8 "2012-07-18T07:05:16Z")
The Times article mentioned that the Justice Department was looking at criminal penalties. HSBC has branches in the US, so they would definitely fall under our jurisdiction. It is well past time that some bankers go to jail. Gitmo would be too much to ask for, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/9 "2012-07-18T07:20:45Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > In this case, they knew exactly what they were doing. Why would they bother? A guy comes into the HSBC branch in Mexico City with a suitcase full of cash. Why ask him where he got it if you’re going to open the account for him anyway. There’s no point in seeking information that you’re not going to act on. It’s not like they were accepting only Mexican drug money, is it? ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/10 "2012-07-18T12:05:36Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Got a cite? I know nothing about this but would love to learn. I know nothing about it either, but [a Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_T._King#Support_for_the_IRA) states he supported the IRA for a number of years. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/11 "2012-07-18T20:08:01Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Why would they bother? A guy comes into the HSBC branch in Mexico City with a suitcase full of cash. Why ask him where he got it if you’re going to open the account for him anyway. There’s no point in seeking information that you’re not going to act on. It’s not like they were accepting only Mexican drug money, is it? However it happened, they knew what they were doing. Can’t find a cite online, but a news story quoted an HSBC exec’s email from several years ago that outright admitted what they were doing, something like, “We are laundering Mexican drug money.” It was as blatant as that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/12 "2012-07-18T22:10:51Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > However it happened, they knew what they were doing. Can’t find a cite online, but a news story quoted an HSBC exec’s email from several years ago that outright admitted what they were doing, something like, “We are laundering Mexican drug money.” It was as blatant as that. The Times article says that HSBC employees worked with Iranians to explicitly circumvent the sanctions. I get the dead tree version, but it was in the article published yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/13 "2012-07-18T22:34:39Z")
You thought banks were run by good people? This makes me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/14 "2012-07-18T23:20:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Peter King laundered hundreds of thousands of dollars for terrorists and he’s in _Congress_. [Here’s a good overview.](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/01/10/the-terrorists-man-in-washington.html) ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/15 "2012-07-19T01:24:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The Times article says that HSBC employees worked with Iranians to explicitly circumvent the sanctions. I get the dead tree version, but it was in the article published yesterday. Here’s the part from [nytimes.com](http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/07/16/scathing-report-details-money-laundering-problems-at-hsbc/) that pertains to that: > [@](#): > > In some cases, HSBC executives counseled Iranian financial institutions on how to evade the filters of American regulators, the report says. The quote I saw was from a TV news story, probably one of the Big 3 broadcasters but I don’t remember which one. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/16 "2012-07-19T02:08:53Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > But wait, if I laundered money for a terrorist group I’m going to be behind bars for pretty much the rest of my life Depends on who can [vouch](http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldhansrd/text/101101-0003.htm) for you. > [@](#): > > Lord James of Blackheath: I have had one of the biggest experiences in the laundering of terrorist money and funny money that anyone has had in the City. I have handled billions of pounds of terrorist money. > > Baroness Hollis of Heigham: Where did it go to? > > Lord James of Blackheath: Not into my pocket. My biggest terrorist client was the IRA and I am pleased to say that I managed to write off more than £1 billion of its money. I have also had extensive connections with north African terrorists, but that was of a far nastier nature, and I do not want to talk about that because it is still a security issue. **I hasten to add that it is no good getting the police in, because I shall immediately call the Bank of England as my defence witness, given that it put me in to deal with these problems.** ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/17 "2012-07-19T04:45:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Here’s a good overview.](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/01/10/the-terrorists-man-in-washington.html) Erm… that was supposed to be a response to the post below. Not my own. :smack: > [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Got a cite? I know nothing about this but would love to learn. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/18 "2012-12-11T23:57:27Z")
And the result is no criminal charges and a $1.5 billion fine. What the fuck! And HSBC stock actually rose slightly when the fine was announced. What’s $1.5 billion to them? A few months’ profit? I smell a rat. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/19 "2012-12-17T19:42:55Z")
This is what you got when you voted for the Democrats, this is what you get when you vote for Obama, and believe their lies. Obama and the Democrats are OWNED by the One Percent, just like the Republicans. The total failure of the US government to criminally prosecute people who laundered money for Iran, Mexican drug cartels and Al Qaeda says it all: they do their master’s bidding. The only way out is progressive politics. They are ineffectual now but that’s going to change. Check out [this post from Glen Greenwald](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/12/hsbc-prosecution-fine-money-laundering)if you don’t believe me. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576/20 "2012-12-17T19:52:35Z")
HSBC missed out on 60 trillion in suspicious activity, including billions from Mexican drug cartels, and billion from Iran, and billions from Al Qaeda. But you know, they were able to track $10,000 in “suspicious activity” by former attorney general Elliot Spitzer back when he was investigating HSBC’s money laundering activities. Imagine that. [Link.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4fIHa8_6wE) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banks-laundering-terrorist-and-drug-gang-money/628576.md?page=2)