# Banning a hijab in a public institution. This time in the US. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976 "2009-11-01T20:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/41 "2009-11-02T22:57:44Z")
It appears it was all a ['misunderstanding](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iEvS2u4U5pZRSI3oJ1B4UT1n50egD9BNM0G81)’: > [@](#): > > Coppell-based CareNow, which has nearly two dozen minor emergency clinics in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, called the headscarf ban a misunderstanding and said it plans to train workers to prevent confusion in the future. > > “We look forward to sitting down with Dr. Zaki and discussing potential job opportunities. Bright, young doctors like her are just what we’re looking for,” CareNow President Tim Miller said in a statement released on Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/42 "2009-11-02T23:04:09Z")
Some people say that the headscarf or bur’qa is not a Muslim religious requirement. This really isn’t accurate. Hundreds of millions of Muslim women consider it a religious requirement that they cover up. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/43 "2009-11-02T23:42:27Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > Some people say that the headscarf or bur’qa is not a Muslim religious requirement. This really isn’t accurate. Hundreds of millions of Muslim women consider it a religious requirement that they cover up. Well, am I to assume that the Muslim women who told me it’s not a requirement are just lying? It’s a preference. My understanding is that it’s required for worship. The Christian religion has a similar requirement, or used to. (We got these doily things to put on our heads when we visited a Catholic church.) My first two babies were delivered in a hospital where the nurses were all nuns. Did they wear habits in the delivery room? No, they did not. They wore scrubs, like anyone in a delivery room anywhere. Had their wedding rings on, though. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/44 "2009-11-03T00:04:59Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > Some people say that the headscarf or bur’qa is not a Muslim religious requirement. This really isn’t accurate. Hundreds of millions of Muslim women consider it a religious requirement that they cover up. Ah, the Burqa is not the same as a headscarf. The Burqa is pretty fringy from what I see in Muslim communities, but a headscarf is almost common. > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > A scarf isn’t, no. But they had a picture, taken from a security camera, and the person in question looked like a ninja. You couldn’t even tell that it was a woman. Well, that’s whole other kettle of fish mate, the face veil is clearly unacceptable. But it’s hardly the same deal as the headscarf hijab, which in UK runs a gamut from odd pseudo nun outfits to “ordinary” clothes with a run of cloth round the head (fetching sometimes come to think of it). > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Well, am I to assume that the Muslim women who told me it’s not a requirement are just lying? I should think that there is a pretty big distance between “lying” and different views and sects in a religion. If Lutherans and Catholics, never mind Low Church non-conformists, can have different views on the Bible, I should think we can expect the same in other religions. Some folks think its optional, others a hard requirement. Depends on one’s “sect” in the end. I am not one to tell Catholics that their idol worship via saints is merely a preference, it’s quite sincere I am sure. > [@](#): > > My first two babies were delivered in a hospital where the nurses were all nuns. Did they wear habits in the delivery room? No, they did not. They wore scrubs, like anyone in a delivery room anywhere. I would hazard the opinion that operating rooms is not a comparable to your average working situation (not that I can see a head covering getting in the way, surgical cover goes over, but whatever). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/45 "2009-11-03T01:37:15Z")
> [@ruritanian](#): > > That’s why I don’t care about the “why”'s and “how”'s. OTOH, it may well be that for many of us, the “why” and “how” _ **IS** _ the determinant factor we care about if we’re going to make a public expression about it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/46 "2009-11-03T02:31:17Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Well, am I to assume that the Muslim women who told me it’s not a requirement are just lying? It’s a preference. My understanding is that it’s required for worship. Of course you shouldn’t assume those women are lying. Neither should you assume that they represent all Muslim women. Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/47 "2009-11-03T08:07:58Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Well, am I to assume that the Muslim women who told me it’s not a requirement are just lying? It’s a preference. My understanding is that it’s required for worship. The Christian religion has a similar requirement, or used to. (We got these doily things to put on our heads when we visited a Catholic church.) Islam does not have a single central authority to speak authoritatively on the subject (not that having one helps all that much in a worldwide organization) so there is no correct answer on whether it is a requirement or not. Happily, American law has an answer for this which avoids requiring judges to rule based on the validity of religious doctrine: it has to be a sincerely held belief. Thus, if the person in question thinks it is a requirement then it is. ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/48 "2009-11-03T08:46:38Z")
> [@ruritanian](#): > > The idea is that the final result is the same. If I have two cups of sugar, I don’t care where the crystals come from. It’s still sugar, even if one cup comes from beets and the other comes from cane. Until Hena Zaki will work at the clinic in question while wearing a hijab, the status quo is the same. I don’t care who keeps her from that: the (public) state or the (private) clinic. . Unless of course she doesn’t want to work there. Or does that count, too? If she voluntarily decides not to work at the clinic even if they offer her a job is that also the same thing as oulawing a bit of cloth? The leader of France says that the burqua is not welcome in France and the legislative branch is currently studying how to implement a total ban. The Dutch ruling coalition says clothing which covers the face is undesirable but unfortunately too difficult to ban. The leader of the United States says that “Our basic attitude is, is that we’re not going to tell people what to wear.” Are these also all the same? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/49 "2009-11-03T10:35:23Z")
> [@Marienee](#): > > Unless of course she doesn’t want to work there. Or does that count, too? If she voluntarily decides not to work at the clinic even if they offer her a job is that also the same thing as oulawing a bit of cloth? > > The leader of France says that the burqua is not welcome in France and the legislative branch is currently studying how to implement a total ban. The Dutch ruling coalition says clothing which covers the face is undesirable but unfortunately too difficult to ban. The leader of the United States says that “Our basic attitude is, is that we’re not going to tell people what to wear.” > > Are these also all the same? Heck, I remember they made a law that public schools could not discriminate based on hair length. In this country, we go out of our way to prevent discrimination. It seems like France is more worried about religious indoctrination. And, OP, there’s a reason this might not have been discussed. There is no **debate**. We all agree (other than you, apparently) that there is no hypocrisy. We all agree that forbidding religious expression would be illegal. We all agree (other than you) that this is not the same as what happened in France. Your country did something that a lot of people didn’t like. I’m sorry it offended you that we made such a big deal over it. But it’s directly opposed to the values of our country. The (predictably underwhelming) resolution of this case is further indication of that. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/50 "2009-11-05T20:05:53Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > No. In the United States even a private business is not allowed to discriminate based on race, sex, national origin, or religion. You have to be clear here on the meaning of discriminate. They can’t say I’m not hiring anyone who believes in Santaria, but they can damn well prohibit animal sacrifice on their property by an employee who is an adherent to that faith. They weren’t telling the woman she wasn’t being hired because she’s Muslim, but they can regulate work dress codes. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/51 "2009-11-05T20:08:04Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > Some people say that the headscarf or bur’qa is not a Muslim religious requirement. This really isn’t accurate. Hundreds of millions of Muslim women consider it a religious requirement that they cover up. And a few hundred million Catholics pray with rosary beeds; but try finding those beeds in the Bible. It’s cultural, not doctrinal. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976/52 "2009-11-05T23:41:36Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > They weren’t telling the woman she wasn’t being hired because she’s Muslim, but they can regulate work dress codes. I may have said this earlier in the thread but I don’t know if this is a case of discrimination. I’m not a lawyer or a medical professional so I don’t know if it’s reasonable to prevent someone from wearing headscarf in that kind of environment. However, the fact remains that the United States does have laws to prevent discrimination based on certain traits when it comes to employment, housing, loans, etc. I don’t know if the same is true of France. If so, the protections certainly aren’t as generous as they are here. Odesio [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-a-hijab-in-a-public-institution-this-time-in-the-us/515976.md?page=2)