# Banning Burkinis (or Veils/Headscarves) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085 "2016-08-17T15:43:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/41 "2016-08-17T18:30:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I still can’t tell for sure, but I think **levdrakon** might be taking that position. I suspect that a fruitful debate would require arguments that are a trifle less … enigmatic. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/42 "2016-08-17T18:38:30Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Islam is the most violently homophobic religion on the planet. Ask a gay Muslim. Do you not consider gay Muslims to be Muslim? Not sure why you’d bend over backwards trying to defend it. Is there something about gays that makes you think wishing them death is somehow appropriate? religious freedom and all that. Except that, you know, some of them are gay. > > Going to a beach and seeing a woman in a burka means she want’s me dead. That’s a trigger. I’m assuming you defend triggers, and yet you value Islam more than you value gay triggers. Interesting. Islam wants to kill gays? Not a trigger. Gays feeling Islam wants to kill them? Not a trigger. > > Yes, interesting. “trigger”? Really? It’s not just about you. I’m quite sure the French PM has other reasons for this idiotic rule. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/43 "2016-08-17T18:39:39Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Islam is the most violently homophobic religion on the planet. Ask a gay Muslim. Do you not consider gay Muslims to be Muslim? Not sure why you’d bend over backwards trying to defend it. Is there something about gays that makes you think wishing them death is somehow appropriate? religious freedom and all that. Except that, you know, some of them are gay. > > Going to a beach and seeing a woman in a burka means she want’s me dead. That’s a trigger. I’m assuming you defend triggers, and yet you value Islam more than you value gay triggers. Interesting. Islam wants to kill gays? Not a trigger. Gays feeling Islam wants to kill them? Not a trigger. > > Yes, interesting. I’m still confused, but interested. So all Muslims want to kill gays? Or the religion itself does (not sure how that works), but not necessarily all adherents? Or only adherents who wear burqas? If I put on a burqa, does that mean that I want to kill gays? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/44 "2016-08-17T18:41:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I still can’t tell for sure, but I think **levdrakon** might be taking that position. I’m pretty sure if klansman invoked their right to wear pointy headed sheets to the beach there’d be some bitching. But when it’s Islam, OMG racist sexist! ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/45 "2016-08-17T18:45:21Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Going to a beach and seeing a woman in a burka means she want’s me dead. That’s a trigger. Do you get that feeling (“she wants me dead”) from any woman wearing any type of head covering (from a burqa to a hijab)? Or is there something specific about certain ones or in certain contexts? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/46 "2016-08-17T18:49:21Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’m pretty sure if klansman invoked their right to wear pointy headed sheets to the beach there’d be some bitching. But when it’s Islam, OMG racist sexist! Huh? Still can’t decipher your point. Are you of the impression that people in this thread are saying it’s “racist sexist” to criticize burqas or burkinis? 'Cause I certainly don’t believe that – criticize burqas or any outfit all you want and I won’t consider you racist or sexist for such criticism. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/47 "2016-08-17T18:50:11Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You know, I am wondering how they are able to determine the difference between a “burkini” and a creative (like maybe a superheroine theme) bodysuit that a surfer or diver might be wearing? Are they going to require fashion police at the beach? And by the same token, will it be illegal to wear jeans and a windbreaker to the beach in Nice? That clothing covers the same body parts. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/48 "2016-08-17T18:59:04Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I’d love to hear the reasoning of anyone who is in favor of this law. I can’t understand the logic. I think **levdrakon** summed it up pretty well in post 28. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/49 "2016-08-17T19:40:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m still confused, but interested. So all Muslims want to kill gays? LOL. Do you think Muslims can’t also be gay? Do you think being a gay Muslim means you should kill yourself? How progressive. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/50 "2016-08-17T19:43:46Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > LOL. Do you think Muslims can’t also be gay? Do you think being a gay Muslim means you should kill yourself? How progressive. Wait, do you believe these things? I’ve been trying to figure out your feelings on this and I still have no idea. I suppose we’re at an impasse. Best wishes and love to you and yours! If you ever want to state your opinions clearly, I’m all ears. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/51 "2016-08-17T19:51:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m having trouble grasping how your reply adds anything to the discussion, and seems to be just a snarky posting against other posters having the gall to mention the US. Perhaps you are just tired from being forced to read topics that mention the US. The irony of this is pretty well off the charts. Just to be clear, I DID reply to the OP. You decided that a thread about France and French laws should have the US brought in. I merely commented that it’s getting tiring that folks (such as you) feel the need to drag the US into every discussion, which you replied with mock confusion about me needing a nap. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/52 "2016-08-17T19:59:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Wait, do you believe these things? I’ve been trying to figure out your feelings on this and I still have no idea. I suppose we’re at an impasse. > > Best wishes and love to you and yours! If you ever want to state your opinions clearly, I’m all ears. How adorably vague. Ask me a question that isn’t copy pasted out of whatever sheet you work off of. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/53 "2016-08-17T20:03:50Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > How adorably vague. Ask me a question that isn’t copy pasted out of whatever sheet you work off of. Sure, I’ll rephrase the questions I’ve already asked: Do you believe that all Muslims (except perhaps gay Muslims) want to kill gays? Or the religion itself does (not sure how that works), but not necessarily all adherents? Or only adherents who wear burqas? If I put on a burqa, does that mean that I want to kill gays? Also, are you of the impression that people in this thread are saying it’s “racist sexist” to criticize burqas or burkinis? And your questions to me (not sure if they were rhetorical or not – my answer to both is “no”): Do you think Muslims can’t also be gay? Do you think being a gay Muslim means you should kill yourself? And the main ones – do you support making it against the law to wear burkinis on public beaches? Do you support laws that would make it illegal to wear the burqa in public, or any other religious garment? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/54 "2016-08-17T20:15:56Z")
France, I get it. You are anti anything that might be viewed as suppressing women. So, if a dad in France doesn’t want his teenage daughter getting a belly ring, are you going to require that dad to let her get a belly ring. And if those same parents don’t want their daughter to have sex with her boyfriend, are you require them to facilitate them having sex? Where’s the beginning of the slippery slope? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/55 "2016-08-17T20:21:30Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Where’s the beginning of the slippery slope? About 8 inches below the belly ring? Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/56 "2016-08-17T20:24:01Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Islam is the most violently homophobic religion on the planet. Ask a gay Muslim. Do you not consider gay Muslims to be Muslim? Not sure why you’d bend over backwards trying to defend it. Is there something about gays that makes you think wishing them death is somehow appropriate? religious freedom and all that. Except that, you know, some of them are gay. > > Going to a beach and seeing a woman in a burka means she want’s me dead. That’s a trigger. I’m assuming you defend triggers, and yet you value Islam more than you value gay triggers. Interesting. Islam wants to kill gays? Not a trigger. Gays feeling Islam wants to kill them? Not a trigger. > > Yes, interesting. Both Judaism and Christianity have verses in their holy books that call for the deaths of homosexuals and some extremists within those faiths have openly advocated for that. Are you going to call for a ban on crosses now? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/57 "2016-08-17T20:25:41Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Going to a beach and seeing a woman in a burka means she want’s me dead. That’s a trigger. I’m assuming you defend triggers, and yet you value Islam more than you value gay triggers. Interesting. Islam wants to kill gays? Not a trigger. Gays feeling Islam wants to kill them? Not a trigger. Nobody is making laws about what the voices in your head are saying. Muslims are allowed to hate gay people and you’re allowed to hate Muslims. There shouldn’t be thought crimes. Crimes should only be about actions. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/58 "2016-08-17T20:46:06Z")
The liberal camp tends to be more prone to internal conflicting interests of this sort than the conservative camp. Women’s rights and “respecting foreign cultures/religions” will inevitably clash if that foreign culture/religion - in this case, Islam - is repressive of women’s rights. The tiebreaker has typically gone to Islam, and I’m curious why. And **levdrakon** , I’m with **iiandyiiii** …“wut?” is the only reasonable response to your rather confusing posts in this thread… ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/59 "2016-08-17T20:47:34Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Both Judaism and Christianity have verses in their holy books that call for the deaths of homosexuals and some extremists within those faiths have openly advocated for that. Are you going to call for a ban on crosses now? Holy books don’t do anything. They’re inanimate objects. It’s something else. What I’m going to call for ban of, is killing gays. Gotta problem with that based on your verses? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085/60 "2016-08-17T20:52:31Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Both Judaism and Christianity have verses in their holy books that call for the deaths of homosexuals and some extremists within those faiths have openly advocated for that. Are you going to call for a ban on crosses now? Cite for any holy book that contains the word “homosexual?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-burkinis-or-veils-headscarves/763085.md?page=4)