# Banning Cell Phone Use For Inexperienced Drivers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 4, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515 "2003-06-04T04:20:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/1 "2003-06-04T04:20:53Z")
> [@](#): > > All states should prohibit inexperienced drivers from using cell phones behind the wheel, the National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday. > > New Jersey and Maine have passed laws prohibiting those with learner’s permits from using cell phones or other wireless devices while driving. The NTSB said it wants the 48 other states to adopt similar laws, although it can’t mandate the change. > > “We think that inexperienced drivers should do nothing more than concentrate on the driving task,” said Joseph Osterman, director of the NTSB’s Office of Highway Safety. Source: [http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/06/03/drivers.cell.phones.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/06/03/drivers.cell.phones.ap/index.html) As much as I loathe government interference in my life, this is one I am in agreement. I cannot count on my fingers every day the number of drivers who are more engrossed in their phone conversation than driving their vehicle. City streets, suburbs, highways, the Interstate, the lot. I’ve witnessed close calls by drivers more attentive and demonstrative with the voice on the other end of a digital signal than fellow drivers, cyclists and pedestrians. I’ve had close calls myself with these mile a minute jabbermouths. In several cases I followed drivers on the Interstate for miles as they weaved _all_ over the road, thinking I had a drunk ahead of me, only to put pedal to the metal and pass them, finding their attention was to their cell phone and not the road. My gosh! Is a phone conversation so important that one cannot make it while the vehicle is stopped? Will commerce take a nosedive because that business meeting has to be attended behind the wheel, too? Sure, let’s get them while they are (traditionally) young and inexperienced and imprint good driving habits on the newbies from day one. Just as many states have adopted zero tolerance laws with respect to alcohol for new drivers, do it for cell phone use. Will this place a burden on the street cop, attending to chin wag intervention, instead of chasing speeders, racing to armed robberies and the like? Most certainly. At the same time, isn’t saving a life from injury and/or death caused by a self-absorbed, inattentive driver just as important, too? I think so. This sounds more of an IMHO or Pit rant, but let’s debate the issue. Is cell phone use by a driver in a moving vehicle appropriate behavior? Should we develop social conventions to change this behavior, or should we resort to actual legislation to stop it? Just for the record, my employer bans the use of cell phones, in fact, all telecommunications use (phones, two-way radios, CBs, etc.) by the driver in a moving vehicle while on the clock, whether using the company vehicle or your personal vehicle. The only exception is a true life or death emergency, but only by folks whose job involves life or death emergencies. Failure to abide by this policy may involve, suspensions, fines, possible jail time, even being fired. (Ah, my employer is a federal agency.) ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/2 "2003-06-04T04:27:06Z")
What? No hands-free setups allowed? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/3 "2003-06-04T04:50:58Z")
Additional … > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON, D.C. - The National Transportation Safety Board said today that the nation’s driver education courses should include warnings about the dangers of distracted driving, and novice drivers should be prohibited from using cell phones while at the wheel. > > These were two of the recommendations contained in the Board’s final report on its investigation into a highway crash last year that took the lives of 5 persons, including a driver who was using a wireless phone at the moment she lost control of her vehicle. > > On February 1, 2002, at about 8:00 p.m., a Ford Explorer was traveling northbound on Interstate 95/495 (the Capital Beltway) near Largo, Maryland at an estimated speed of 70 to 75 miles an hour when it veered off the left side of the roadway, crossed over the median, climbed a guardrail, flipped over and landed on top of a southbound 2001 Ford Windstar minivan. All 5 persons in the two vehicles were killed. Source: [http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2003/030603.htm](http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2003/030603.htm) ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/4 "2003-06-04T05:18:25Z")
Do these laws have any effect? ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/5 "2003-06-04T05:58:21Z")
FWIW, it is an offence in most Australian states to use a mobile (cell) phone while you are driving, unless you are using a hands-free kit.\* That’s for everyone, not just inexperienced drivers. I think it’s a great idea. Less phone usage on the roads means less accidents, and less chance that I’m going to be wiped out by some inattentive moron. Further, using public roads is a privilege, not a right; the state should impose whatever conditions it deems appropriate to our licensed use of the roads. Then again, this isn’t the Land of the Free. 😉 - OTOH, this doesn’t prevent dumb-arses from _typing_ SMS messages while they’re driving. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/6 "2003-06-04T05:59:18Z")
I wouldnt want to stop at inexperienced drivers. I think the use of cell phones while driving should be banned outright. Even good drivers are impaired by them. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/7 "2003-06-04T07:36:46Z")
How is this supposed to be enforced? Is a cop going to pull someone over and say “I saw you talking on a cell phone back there. Permit and registration, please? Oh, this is a real driver’s license… sorry to waste your time. Move along.” ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/8 "2003-06-04T08:27:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Azael \* > \*\*What? No hands-free setups allowed? \*\* I personally believe that ALL mobile phone usage, including hands-free, should be banned. IMHO using a hands-free is not the same as simply talking to someone else in the car. The person on the end of the phone is not aware of the situation the driver is in and thus cannot react to difficult traffic situations like a passenger can. If there is a situation on the road the passenger knows to shut up and let the driver concentrate, the person on the end of the phone doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/9 "2003-06-04T08:28:40Z")
There is a complete ban on using mobiles whilst in control of a vehicle in the UK. Automatic 3 points on your licence and a fine. Same with eating / drinking / putting on make-up / reading the paper etc… Doing anything other than driving and concentrating on the road will carry the same penalty, classed as _‘dangerous or careless driving’._ Roads are dangerous enough without taking further unnecessary risks. And the traffic police here certainly prosecute cases. And rightly so. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/10 "2003-06-04T10:26:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aro \* > \*\*There is a complete ban on using mobiles whilst in control of a vehicle in the UK. Automatic 3 points on your licence and a fine. \*\* Not true. There is currently no law that makes it an offence in the UK to use a phone while driving. Legislation is, however, proposed and in the review stage. [Department of Transport proposal.](http://www.roads.dft.gov.uk/consult/mobiles/index.htm) What **is** an offense is driving “without due care and attention” and mobile phone users have been prosecuted under this charge. But there is a certain amount of argument involved in determining if the driver in each case was using due care and attention. I’m all for the legislation. You simply cannot be driving safely while talking on a phone and using only one hand. This is particularly the case in the UK where most vehicles are not automatic and a hand is also needed to change gear. And I really don’t see what the idea is about limiting any ban to new drivers. Do experienced drivers grow an extra hand? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/11 "2003-06-04T10:33:56Z")
It’s a lot easier to ignore the person you’re talking to momentarily if you’re using a headset than if you’re just holding the phone up. There are fewer muscles being used with a headset, hence a little more of one’s attention is on the road. Inexperienced drivers have always been a problem; you become a good driver only through experience, IMO, not fresh out of driver’s school. Will it be so horrible if the 16, 17, and 18-year olds can’t use their cells while driving? Pull over, it’s smarter. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/12 "2003-06-04T10:43:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amanset \* > \*\*I personally believe that ALL mobile phone usage, including hands-free, should be banned. IMHO using a hands-free is not the same as simply talking to someone else in the car. The person on the end of the phone is not aware of the situation the driver is in and thus cannot react to difficult traffic situations like a passenger can. If there is a situation on the road the passenger knows to shut up and let the driver concentrate, the person on the end of the phone doesn’t. \*\* You’ve obviously never driven with children in the back seat. At least the person you’re talking to on the phone shuts up the first time you tell him to. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/13 "2003-06-04T10:48:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > \*\* > > And I really don’t see what the idea is about limiting any ban to new drivers. Do experienced drivers grow an extra hand? \*\* No, they grow a vote. It has to be far easier to enact a law that will only inconvienence (although in this case I could give a rat’s ass about their inconvience) people who are too young to show disapproval by voting for someone other than the law’s supporters. Sure, they might lose the kids’ votes in a couple of years, but I’m willing to bet it’s a risk worth taking because of the trade-off of getting support from already adult voters. Personally, I’d be thrilled if my state passes this, and I’d support it even more if it extended to drivers of all ages. There are precious few emergencies that require one to speak on a phone while your vehicle _is in motion_, and I’m certain that there are very few life-or-death conversations going on when a cell-phone user does cause an accident. After maybe… ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/14 "2003-06-04T11:03:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > **Not true.** Mmm, okay, I see that we in Northern Ireland are, again, the ‘_guinea pigs_’ for possible future UK legislation. Just like they did with compulsory display of R plates too. BTW, it is a [law in Ireland](http://www.irishtrucker.com/NEWS/2002/MARCH/200301.asp) and is being currently being enforced on the ground in Northern Ireland too. Sorry for the minor hijack. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/15 "2003-06-04T11:36:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfkin477 \* > \*\*No, they grow a vote. It has to be far easier to enact a law that will only inconvienence (although in this case I could give a rat’s ass about their inconvience) people who are too young to show disapproval by voting for someone other than the law’s supporters. Sure, they might lose the kids’ votes in a couple of years, but I’m willing to bet it’s a risk worth taking because of the trade-off of getting support from already adult voters. \*\* Not only that, but by the time they’re old enough to vote, they’re more likely to have adopted the attitude of mature adults than to continue to have the attitude of teenagers. That’s painting with quite a broad brush, but one can mature by a large degree in a few years at that particular stage in life. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/16 "2003-06-04T13:14:34Z")
I’d be for laws banning all cellphone use by drivers, including hands-free setups. On numerous occasions I’ve missed exits or suffered other lapses in concentration at the wheel while engrossed in conversation with someone in the front seat. It’s got to be more of a problem when you’re straining to hear someone on a marginal cell connection, whether or not you’re actually holding a phone in your hand. I don’t think laws will make the big difference though. Insurance companies will have to administer big hits in their customers’ rates following cellphone-related accidents in order to get people’s attention. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/17 "2003-06-04T13:16:44Z")
Yeah, but in order for the company to determine that a cell phone contributed to the accident, wouldn’t the police need to include it in their accident report? And wouldn’t making it illegal make them include it if it was applicable? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/18 "2003-06-04T15:44:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Yeah, but in order for the company to determine that a cell phone contributed to the accident, wouldn’t the police need to include it in their accident report? And wouldn’t making it illegal make them include it if it was applicable? \*\* The [NTSB Report (Summary)](http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2003/HAR0302.htm), which prompted the press release says this: "Safety Recommendations "To the 49 States that do not have legislation prohibiting holders of learner’s permits and intermediate licenses from using interactive wireless communication devices: "6. Enact legislation to prohibit holders of learner’s permits and intermediate licenses from using interactive wireless communication devices while driving. "To the 34 States that do not have driver distraction codes on their traffic accident investigation forms: “7. Add driver distraction codes, including codes for interactive wireless communication device use, to your traffic accident investigation forms.” ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/19 "2003-06-04T15:46:39Z")
Sounds good to me. Would give them a better idea of how much of a role cells play. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515/20 "2003-06-04T16:22:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*How is this supposed to be enforced? Is a cop going to pull someone over and say “I saw you talking on a cell phone back there. Permit and registration, please? Oh, this is a real driver’s license… sorry to waste your time. Move along.” \*\* It’ll probably work the same way as seat belt laws. The cop will pull you over for speeding, give you a ticket of that and one for talking on the cell phone when he clocked you. I agree with the spirit of the law (acknowledging the dangers of driving with cell phones and the dangers of new drivers), but it really is stupid. With a learner’s permit the kid can only drive with someone over the age of 21 as I recall, so ususally their parents. What kid would say, “Mom, hang on with the parallel parking. I have to call Tiffy!” and what parent would allow that? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-cell-phone-use-for-inexperienced-drivers/179515.md?page=2)