I’m not sure I follow, Wolfian. What parent would allow the child not to parallel park? Why can’t the kid call after he or she parks?
Anyway, it’s not aimed only at the learner’s permit crowd; also those with intermediate licenses, whatever they are.
Ban all cellular and wireless telephony in automobiles. If they wanna yak, make 'em get a CB.
[Barney Gumble] “It’s the next best thing to paying attention to your driving!” [/Barney Gumble]
RE: Hands-free kits.
Look at the laws that exist thus far, in some states: they ban cellphone use while driving, unless the driver is using a hands-free kit. Studies have demonstrated fairly conclusively that what causes accidents is not people looking away to dial on their phone by hand, but the nature of carrying on a telephone conversation itself. These laws are effectively worthless, but they still passed.
New Jersey has a new program in which you get a “provisional license” at 17, with which you can’t drive between 12 p.m. and 5 a.m., can’t drive out of state, and can’t have more than one passenger who doesn’t share your address. Then, when you turn 18, you get your regular license. (I have a provisional license now) Other states may have similar laws; “intermediate licenses” probably refers to these kinds of things.
Yes.
In saying that insurance company policies would probably be more effective than laws banning cellphone use while driving, I’m thinking that people who’d be willing to risk $100 fines for breaking the law might think twice about their gabbing habits, if their yakking led to a $500 jump in annual insurance rates (or losing insurance entirely in the event of a cellphone-related accident).
I don’t think it makes sense to ban cellphones just for inexperienced drivers, whatever the definition of “inexperienced” is. I see people far too old to be inexperienced at driving talking and driving like morons. New York State has very strict laws against it - no, I’ve never seen someone arrested for using a cell, but it would be interesting to see some data backing up the earlier comments: is talking the problem, or talking on the phone? I’d say with a phone, even if you’re not looking to dial, you of necessity either turn your head to talk or take a hand off the wheel, which might cause extra problems. There are definitely more people here with hands-free phones than there used to be.
dantheman, I was simply refering to how absurd it would be to have a kid on the phone while the parent is in the car teaching him how to drive. I suppose my example could have been clearer.
But with learner’s permits - and I’m assuming this varies from state to state - the driver must be in the car only with another adult, not necessarily the parents. (Adult over 21, IIRC.) At any rate, that leaves the intermediates.
Would such a law be helpful? Why wouldn’t it? What’s so bad about not allowing new drivers to use cell phones?
I would definitely support this law for minors (or, more accurately, people who have had their license less than 2 years), but I wouldn’t want to see it applied to all drivers. I think there’s a certain reasonable limit to how much government intervention we should have in such matters, and banning all cell phone use crosses it, as does banning eating, or any other such activity.
Sure, I’ve been cut off, or nearly rammed, by some dumb-ass yakking on a cell, but I’ve also been cut-off by people talking to passengers, and by people singing to the radio. Wanna ban those, too? How about banning only steering with one hand, or reaching into the seat next to you, or consulting directions? I’ve been in near-misses with people who were just plain oblivious to what they were doing. How do you ban that?
The proper way to approach this is to just enforce the laws on the books. Driving recklessly is, in fact, against the law. If you’re swerving around the road, the officer can pull you over and write you up. And the nice thing is that this doesn’t require some additional law to cover every possible action the driver could be performing that distracted him from his driving. If someone nearly rear-ends another car, the cop should pull him over, and issue at least a warning. And if the idiot was talking on a cell and not paying attention to the road, give him a reckless driving ticket (which is damned pricey, btw). No muss, no fuss, and no more freakin’ laws.
Jeff
Except for this, Jeff. There are many accidents in which the driver swerved but one time - the final time. They could be talking on the phone and driving, and then suddenly get distracted and voom! Off the road or out of the lane.
Here’s another thing to think about, too. It makes sense to apply it to those with the least experience, and it makes sense not to apply it to all drivers. But what if this is implemented, and accidents among the middle-aged set stemming from cell use increase? Would you be in favor of implementing this law across the board then?
Me, too. There are some days when I feel like every single person I see driving is on a cell phone. Come on, does everyone really need to be on the phone all the time? What did we do 10 years ago?
I think they mean the provisional license, the one you get after your learner’s permit. You have it for (IIRC) a year and then you get your regular license.
Back when I had mine, you couldn’t drive between midnight and 5:00 a.m. There were some other restrictions, but I don’t remember what they were (or know what they are now).
Similar arguments could be applied to all manner of activities. If studies were performed that showed a decrease in accidents when the driver wasn’t singing, would you ban singing in the car? How about listening to the radio? Talking at all? You have to draw a line somewhere - just because something may be better for society (eg, lead to fewer accidents) doesn’t make it just.
Just as a warning, you’re talking to a border-line small-L libertarian here, so it’s going to take a lot to convince me that you should be allowed to infringe upon my rights. 
Jeff
In NJ, I think the terms are interchangeable. At 17 you get the permit, at 18 you get the license (this is a recent change; used to be 16 and 17).
The other activities you mention can’t be enforced; cell phone use can. What are you going to do, have the police ask the accident victim if he/she was singing while crashing?
Why are you specifically targeting phones? I can’t see how talking on a CB is inherently less distracting than using a hands-free setup. Hell, I’m still learning and it’s hard enough driving and talking to someone in the front seat or listening to the radio. Any sort of remote communication, including CB, would be overwhelming.
I confess I’m a little confused by arguments that run, “well, that isn’t illegal and that is impossible to enforce, so there shouldn’t be a law prohibiting this either”.
There’s no law to prohibit one mounting a giant frikkin’ laaaser on the moon to destroy the planet, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we can’t have laws controlling the ownership of firearms here on Earth.
Sure, we have to draw the line somewhere. It just may be that the line should properly drawn at banning inexperienced motorists from using mobile phones while driving. I prefer a “line” similar to ours – no-one may drive while using a phone – but that’s besides the point.
BTW, what are these “rights” of which you speak? You have no inherent right to use the roads. You have no rights relating to your use of mobile phones.
–
Incidentally, I don’t entirely agree with the exception for hands-free kits as it applies here in Australia. Talking on the phone is distracting, not using one’s hands to hold the phone. Many times I’ve finished a (hands-free) call and found myself unable to recall the last five minutes of landscape which I just drove by. But it just so happens that for reasons for practicality and enforcement that we have an exception for hands-free mobile phone use, which I understand.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by occ *
Look at the laws that exist thus far, in some states: they ban cellphone use while driving, unless the driver is using a hands-free kit. Studies have demonstrated fairly conclusively that what causes accidents is not people looking away to dial on their phone by hand, but the nature of carrying on a telephone conversation itself. These laws are effectively worthless, but they still passed. /QUOTE]
Cite?
Actually, tests have been made assessing both the actual attention being paid to both sudden changes in and permanent characterstics of the road ahead (changing traffic lights, billboards etc) as well as proxies, such as eye movements etc. assessing focus. The result suggested that even talking with a hands-free device significantly distracts the driver, and more so than listening to music or other recordings.
(cf. http://www.psych.utah.edu/AppliedCognitionLab/ and papers listed therein)
Though these do not quite suggest the same thing occ mentioned, rather, they suggest that the problem is not eliminated by hands-free devices, not that handling the phone with one hand and the wheel with the other is not, in fact, a serious problem. Once you realize something is afoot, you still have to do something about it. The phone conversation impairs the first in all cases, having only one hand on the wheel impairs the second, but obviously is only relevant if there’s something left to do for you other than waiting to get peeled out of your car…