# Banning menthol cigarettes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973 "2021-04-28T19:02:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/321 "2022-05-02T17:43:20Z")
That is not the correct reading of either my post or your cite. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/322 "2022-05-02T18:43:23Z")
You are persistent, but still wrong. “When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death on the death certificate, it is coded and counted as a death due to COVID-19.” [How death certificates work](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/covid-19.htm#understanding-death-data-quality). “COVID-19, listed as the underlying cause in 415,399 deaths during 2021, ranked as the third leading underlying cause of death after heart disease (693,021 deaths) and cancer (604,553 deaths).” [2021 data.](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7117e1.htm) From [jamanetwork.com](http://jamanetwork.com), “underlying cause of death” means “that condition or injury (or circumstances of the injury) that initiated the train of morbid events leading directly to death.” So yes, death certificates _commonly_ list a specific virus (in this case, Covid-19) as cause of death. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > A lot of times when you die of a respiratory virus the cause of death is going to be more the mechanical proximate cause of your demise, which could be something like “heart went into arrest.” Now _that_, aside from being singularly unhelpful, would be very unlikely to be cited as a cause of death - for instance I have never seen it on an autopsy report, mine or anyone else’s. I mean, _everybody’s_ heart stops, no matter what killed them. It’s a meaningless statement. Hope that helps clear up your confusion. If not, there is little more I can do to assist you. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/323 "2022-05-02T19:16:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > You are persistent, but still wrong. > > “When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death on the death certificate, it is coded and counted as a death due to COVID-19.” And I never said otherwise. > [@](#): > > [How death certificates work](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/covid-19.htm#understanding-death-data-quality). > > “COVID-19, listed as the underlying cause in 415,399 deaths during 2021, ranked as the third leading underlying cause of death after heart disease (693,021 deaths) and cancer (604,553 deaths).” > > [2021 data.](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7117e1.htm) And I said nothing contrary to this. > [@](#): > > So yes, death certificates _commonly_ list a specific virus (in this case, Covid-19) as cause of death. And I said nothing contrary to that–in fact I specifically mentioned that in my post. So that’s what…at least 3 things from my post that you’re responding to that I never posted? It doesn’t seem like we can have a fruitful dialogue when you want to respond to things I never typed. I would thus suggest that you were “of little help” to begin with, and I see little reason to continue the discussion when one party wishes to create false narratives to which they’d rather respond than the plainly written post itself. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/324 "2023-12-06T20:28:29Z")
> **[Biden ban on menthol cigarettes to be delayed amid political concerns,...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/12/05/menthol-ban-delayed-biden-administration/)** > > Critics of the ban have warned it could anger some Black smokers who favor the products and hurt President Biden’s reelection prospects. Non-paywalled MSN repost: [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-ban-on-menthol-cigarettes-to-be-delayed-amid-political-concerns-officials-say/ar-AA1l45LI](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-ban-on-menthol-cigarettes-to-be-delayed-amid-political-concerns-officials-say/ar-AA1l45LI) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/325 "2024-04-27T02:43:20Z")
And another delay (probably because of the election this year): > **[Biden officials indefinitely postpone ban on menthol cigarettes amid...](https://apnews.com/article/menthol-ban-fda-biden-cigarettes-smokers-e9a28fb0ac70fcb0ad8e106c42d4c951)** > > In a statement, Biden’s top health official gave no timeline for issuing the rule. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/326 "2024-04-30T18:09:57Z")
but that’s being Big Brother or Big Mother. If I post warning that this bar/restaurant allows smoking, then as customer/employee you can exercise free will by not entering, but still allow others to do their free will and enter… It doesn’t hurt you! ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/327 "2024-04-30T18:24:18Z")
Are you being facetious? The whole basis of smoking bans in nightclubs, bars, restaurants is employee safety. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/328 "2024-04-30T21:09:49Z")
But as I said, you don’t want the risk, don’t apply/attend, nobody’s forcing you–that’s called choice ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/329 "2024-04-30T21:23:39Z")
Good luck finding employees for your minimum-wage job that causes cancer, then. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/330 "2024-04-30T21:33:28Z")
> [@fedman1](#): > > but that’s being Big Brother or Big Mother. If I post warning that this bar/restaurant allows smoking, then as customer/employee you can exercise free will by not entering Wow, I want to be an employee at a place where I have the right to not enter there. Permanent vacation, here I come! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/331 "2024-04-30T23:23:34Z")
So much wrong with that post. And a reply 2 years later on top of it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/332 "2024-05-01T01:12:53Z")
Are there any other health regulations you would toss out the window? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/333 "2024-05-01T20:27:33Z")
> [@fedman1](#): > > But as I said, you don’t want the risk, don’t apply/attend, nobody’s forcing you–that’s called choice 42000 +/- Americans die each year from second hand smoke. > **[Deaths From Secondhand Smoke Exposure in the United States: Economic...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3477960/)** > > Objectives. We estimated the number of deaths attributable to secondhand smoke (SHS), years of potential life lost (YPLL), and value of lost productivity for different US racial/ethnic groups in 2006.Methods. We determined the number of SHS–related... So yeah, smokers are forcing you. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any other health regulations you would toss out the window? Yeah, I mean all those stupid OSHA regs- the workers just dont have to work, amirite? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/334 "2024-05-01T22:45:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > 42000 +/- Americans die each year from second hand smoke. 20 years ago. What about today? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/335 "2024-05-02T03:12:55Z")
[Health Effects of Secondhand Smoke | American Lung Association](https://www.lung.org/quit-smoking/smoking-facts/health-effects/secondhand-smoke#:~:text=Secondhand%20smoke%20is%20a%20serious,cancer%2C%20respiratory%20infections%20and%20asthma). _Secondhand smoke is a serious health hazard causing more than 41,000 deaths per year. It can cause or make worse a wide range of damaging health effects in children and adults, including lung cancer, respiratory infections and asthma._ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/336 "2024-05-02T03:39:17Z")
It looks like the newest stats used on that page are from about ten years ago. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/337 "2024-05-02T03:58:47Z")
Weird how that number doesn’t seem to change. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/338 "2024-05-02T04:04:22Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Weird how that number doesn’t seem to change. Went down a little. However, the exact number is not important- the fact that second hand smoke kills tens of thousands of Americans- > **[Risks of Secondhand Smoke](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/10644-secondhand-smoke-dangers)** > > Secondhand smoke can be just as harmful as smoking. Learn all about the risks of secondhand smoke and what it does to your health. Last reviewed by a Cleveland Clinic medical professional on **01/18/2024.** _Secondhand smoke causes over 7,000 [lung cancer](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/4375-lung-cancer) deaths and over 33,000 [heart disease](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24129-heart-disease) deaths each year in the United States._ > [@EllisDee](#): > > 20 years ago. What about today? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > It looks like the newest stats used on that page are from about ten years ago. What exactly is your point? That Second hand smoke doesnt kill tens of thousands of Americans a year? That suddenly after just a decade or so- Second hand smoke is perfectly safe? Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/339 "2024-05-02T04:07:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, the exact number is not important Either the numbers are important because you went through the trouble of looking them up and quoting them, or they _aren’t_ important and we should ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973/340 "2024-05-02T04:09:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What exactly is your point? That Second hand smoke doesnt kill tens of thousands of Americans a year? No-My point is that newer numbers would give us a more accurate read as to whether the problem is growing, staying the same or decreasing at a desired rate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-menthol-cigarettes/940973.md?page=18)