# Banning Smoking In Bars and Nightclubs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 7, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252 "2003-06-07T04:27:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/161 "2003-06-20T20:12:26Z")
I was gonna say earplugs! Now somebody say gas masks, ok. Noise is tha closest analogy to smoke anyone has come up with so far, but as **Eva** states, much easier to deal with. In fact, many employees do use earplugs. Many band members use 'em. BTW; I am not anti-cigarette. I just don’t think it’s the non-smokers job to avoid smoke. I guess that means that I think smoking bans in bars, etc are a good thing. Especially when you consider that all the smoker need do is step outside. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/162 "2003-06-20T20:39:10Z")
Another flaw with the noise analogy: yes, unnecessary hearing damage is bad, but potential swift death (due to an uncontrolled asthma attack), or even slow death (due to lung cancer or emphysema), is much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/163 "2003-06-20T20:48:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*Semantic squirming aside, the fact remains that _one person’s_ post is not in any way indicative of the “anti-smoking movement” (as you call it) as a whole. I assume you agree, then? \*\*Why couldn’t one person’s post be indicative of an entire movement? What exactly is your point? I meant just what I said and nothing more. Stop squirming about pathetically in an attempt to avoid the fact that your point was specious. > [@](#): > > \*\*Well then congratulations on winning the hypothetical debate. Now, anyone care to discuss the _real_ world? \*\*No, congratulations to you, genius, for so helpfully pointing out that a hypothetical was, um–what’s the word?–hypothetical. That is a _gotcha_ that will go down in the annals of the SDMB for its suprising cleverness. > [@](#): > > \*\*:rolleyes: You don’t even know what “rhetorical” means, do you? \*\*Jesus, you really aren’t very good at this, are you? No, an attacking question directed at a particular person, especially when that question assigns obviously absurd motives, is a question that unequivocally invites a response. At least on the planet where the rest of us live. YMMV. You have yet to acknowledge the absolute ridiculousness of suggesting I wanted to assume a common (and counter opinion) for every non-smoker, when I am a member of that very group. In case you’re taking notes, this would be an example of how you’re not terribly good at this. When I pointed this out to you, you reverted to something I suppose I am to infer as, “this is a rhetorical question, so any non sequiturs are merely illusions.” What a clever, clever technique! I’ll have to remember that one. “Pay no attention to the idiotic nature of my post. It was _rhetorical._” > [@](#): > > \*\*You weren’t supposed to answer the rhetorical question. In a subsequent post, I confirmed that it was indeed my point, which is NOT “weaseling”. (Please don’t make me define “weaseling” as well). This shouldn’t be that difficult. > > Why don’t you stop trying to play semantic games? You aren’t even very good at it. \*\*My God, you are _terrible_ at this! You said this: > [@](#): > > \*\*Why do I get the feeling you were just waiting for someone to say something like that so you could latch onto it and assume it’s the opinion of every non-smoker? \*\*Stating subsequently that this is a “rhetorical” question does not change the fact that you are attacking me as having dishonest debating techniques and (in the same breath) that I want to assume I myself have an opinion you know I disagree with. I realize that was not what you intended to imply. I am just pointing out how colossally stupid this statement was. So, your feigned derision of my debating skills is a real laugher, given your profound deficiencies in this regard. Keep weaseling, bub. > [@](#): > > \*\*Well, I _never_ had any respect for yours. \*\* Wow, I’ll try to live with this horrible shame. What a laugh! See ya around, genius. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/164 "2003-06-20T21:07:29Z")
You two, **blowero** and **Bob Cos** , are so engrossed in argueing each other’s debating skills that **Eva Luna** and I can pretty much say anything we want about the OP and get away with it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/165 "2003-06-20T21:20:29Z")
> [@](#): > > You have yet to acknowledge the absolute ridiculousness of suggesting I wanted to assume a common (and counter opinion) for every non-smoker, when I am a member of that very group. I never suggested anything of the sort. You made an implication about “the movement”, not about every single non-smoker. > [@](#): > > In case you’re taking notes, this would be an example of how you’re not terribly good at this. When I pointed this out to you, you reverted to something I suppose I am to infer as, “this is a rhetorical question, so any non sequiturs are merely illusions.” What a clever, clever technique! I’ll have to remember that one. “Pay no attention to the idiotic nature of my post. It was rhetorical.” You totally lost me. I called you on your unfounded characterization of what the “smoking movement” is about. That’s what I said, and that’s what I meant. I stated it as a rhetorical question, a common English construct. You weren’t supposed to infer _anything_, except what I said. It’s my opinion; if you disagree, fine. I can’t even understand what you’re talking about now. Why are you making this so difficult? And the rest of your post is just pointless ranting. Maybe you need your nicotene fix.😉 ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/166 "2003-06-20T21:21:58Z")
And your nicot **i** ne fix, too. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/167 "2003-06-20T23:06:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \*\*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > You have yet to acknowledge the absolute ridiculousness of suggesting I wanted to assume a common (and counter opinion) for every non-smoker, when I am a member of that very group. > > I never suggested anything of the sort. You made an implication about “the movement”, not about every single non-smoker. \*\*You never did, eh? Then can you explain the proper interpretation of your words, the post under discussion above (emphasis added)?: > [@](#): > > \*\*Why do I get the feeling you were just waiting for someone to say something like that so you could latch onto it and _assume it’s the opinion of every non-smoker_? \*\*Christ, you can’t even weasel effectively. It’s a bitch debating in a forum where your words are there for everyone to see, ain’t it? Never did anything of the sort, okee-dokee… > [@](#): > > \*\*It’s my opinion; if you disagree, fine. I can’t even understand what you’re talking about now. \*\*That’s not a terrible shock. Reading comprehension doesn’t appear to be a strong suit for you given your interpretation of what your own words, “every non-smoker,” mean. Apparently in your lexicon, this means something other than “every non-smoker.” Honestly, this is tough to follow from a guy who states, “That’s what I said, and that’s what I meant.” Shall I consider what you said or what you meant to be the conclusive sentiment? Just let me know. In the future perhaps you can provide footnotes. > [@](#): > > \*\*And the rest of your post is just pointless ranting. Maybe you need your nicotene fix.😉 \*\* That’s a knee-slapper. And by that I mean the fact that you can’t seem to grasp that I don’t smoke, despite my having pointed it out multiple times. Other than that, _ouch!_, what a zinger. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/168 "2003-06-21T07:42:31Z")
My apologies. I guess I _did_ say “every non-smoker”. Consider it retracted. If it makes you happy, I will gladly concede that, although you made a generalization about those who are in favor of smoke-free bars and restaurants, you did not explicitly state that it was true of _every_ non-smoker. Can we unbunch those panties now? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/169 "2003-06-21T07:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\*You two, **blowero** and **Bob Cos** , are so engrossed in argueing each other’s debating skills that **Eva Luna** and I can pretty much say anything we want about the OP and get away with it. > :smack: \*\* Please continue. So far I am in agreement with both of you. And you’re right - Bob’s anal-ness is sucking me in. No more semantics - on with the _real_ issues… ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/170 "2003-06-21T13:10:09Z")
What an elegant retraction and apology! An ongoing exchange that began with your unfounded statement, an exchange that continued with your active participation as you denied you said what you said, an exchange where you continued to fling non sequiturs and invective in an attempt to obscure the absurdity of your position, one in which you continued with willful ignorance to assert that your broad inference is the only reasonable interpretation, is the result of my “anal-ness.” Yes, someone’s panties are indeed in a bunch. You are truly the big person I thought you were. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/171 "2003-06-22T02:20:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > **You too? You read it again. The fee remains the same for the smoky place, no increase, no extra.** I did read it again, but apparently you missed this part: > [@](#): > > Why couldn’t the state offer licenses at a greatly discounted rate for non-smoking establishments. Let’s say 75%. Or even raise the license fee for smoking establishments. If nonsmoking bars get cheaper liquor licenses than smoking bars, it’s petty semantics to argue that smoking bars don’t have an extra cost. If the license fee for smoking bars is raised from its present level, well, there’s no arguing that it’s not an extra cost. Why does it matter whether the price for nonsmoking bars goes down, or the price for smoking bars goes up? The result is that smoking bars are more expensive than nonsmoking bars, which is an incentive for people to operate and patronize nonsmoking bars. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/172 "2003-06-22T18:46:26Z")
No, not semantics. But I’d open a non-smoking bar and keep my prices the same as the smoking bar and make out like a bandit. 🙂 Do people price-shop taverns? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/173 "2003-06-24T01:26:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > **No, not semantics. > But I’d open a non-smoking bar and keep my prices the same as the smoking bar and make out like a bandit. 🙂** … until someone else opens a non-smoking bar next door that charges half as much as yours. And that’s exactly what will happen when he notices he can charge half as much as you, and still make a profit. Unless your town is under the iron thumb of the tavern cartel, the public will quickly come to expect lower prices from non-smoking bars. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/174 "2003-06-24T02:21:36Z")
So you believe that people do price-shop taverns? I’m not convinced. Now if I were to _double_ my prices (above normal), somebody probably would notice. Anyway, any town would quickly restore license fees to their original level to recover their losses. Cheaper, and smarter, to just ban smoking. I don’t like to be pushed into something either, but there is simply nothing bad about this law. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/175 "2003-06-27T02:32:35Z")
A suggestion, to those who believe the “employee protection” schtick: Who goes to bartending school expecting to find a job a year later in a non-smoking environment…? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/176 "2003-06-27T06:57:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > **So you believe that people do price-shop taverns? I’m not convinced.** Why would this one business be an exception to the laws of economics? ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/177 "2003-06-27T13:31:57Z")
They just banned smoking in restaurants here in Florida beginning July 1. I can’t wait!! The only thing I don’t like about the banning is the people crowd around the doors to smoke. Well I have to pass thru them and I don’t like smoke being blown on me. It gets in your hair and clothes and makes you get a headache. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/178 "2003-06-27T19:24:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Isabelle \* > The only thing I don’t like about the banning is the people crowd around the doors to smoke. Well I have to pass thru them and I don’t like smoke being blown on me. It gets in your hair and clothes and makes you get a headache. Yeah, but it’s infinitely better than being trapped inside the building with it. Not sure why they have to stand _right by_ the doorway, but what are you gonna do? I just hold my breath 'til I get past them - no biggie. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/179 "2003-06-27T22:20:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*Why would this one business be an exception to the laws of economics? \*\* Back when I _did_ go to bars, I patronized one almost exclusively. They had local bands, nice customers and friendly staff. And a softball team. 🙂 I enjoyed my evenings there, and never compared prices. Why should I? Do other people _actually_ price shop taverns? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252/180 "2003-06-27T22:24:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dutchboy208 \* > \*\*A suggestion, to those who believe the “employee protection” schtick: > > Who goes to bartending school expecting to find a job a year later in a non-smoking environment…? \*\* Now? Around here, a _lot_ of people. With BIG smiles. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/banning-smoking-in-bars-and-nightclubs/180252.md?page=10)