Banning sniper rifles?

I’m not aware of any tracer smaller than 5.56mm (.223). 5.45mm as Russia uses is technically smaller but in the same class as 5.56mm.

Keep in mind those are pretty small as it is. The only commonly available smaller calibers are for fur hunting as the tiny bullets cause less pelt damage. There are some .17 caliber rounds factory and wildcat and I think some .14 caliber wildcats. That’s smaller than the diameter of a BB at .177

I think Hornady made a type of tracer ammunition for handgun training. It was designed a bit different than military rifle tracer bullets so it wouldn’t affect ballistics.

Pray tell why do you hope it isn’t available?

And maybe if we lock you up in your house we will avert a potential massacre. We’ll never know, however, because Congress refuses to do the responsible thing and ban all of us from stepping outside of our houses. Apparently, they only want more children to die… :rolleyes:

So…what percentage of guns used in crimes are legally purchased?

It doesn’t help you at all when you go to prison over the crime of taking the wrong exit from the highway.

And now you are looking with suspicion on tracer ammunition…hey, here’s a thought. Why not go over to Great Debates, read all of the gun-related threads that have been posted to in just the last year, and you will see that everything has been said and discussed before. Ad nauseum.

I’m surprised this isn’t in GD already.

Tracer ammo is fairly easily available, although not “commonly” available as there’s little call for it. Not too far from me, there’s a police and security supply shop- vests, Sam Browne belts, duty holsters, even radios and handcuffs- that has a large selection of “specialty” ammo: Tracer, flechette shotgun rounds, that tubular-copper “Thunderstrike” bullet, MagSafe and Glaser prefragmented rounds, sabot “accellerator” rounds for .308 rifles, even a handgun round that makes a small white flash when it strikes something hard.

And why is any of this a problem? Ever heard of any of them being used for nefarious purposes?

Are tracers incendiary?

Just thinking of flammability and nasty stuff happening.

and no, locking up everyone is not analogous to restricting availablity of 30-round magazines.

and, at some point, 'most every gun was legally purchased.

and, since the police confiscate the bad guy’s guns, eventually there will be no more ‘illegal’ guns, right? :rolleyes:

**

Romanian sar-2.

I understand, but it’s still absolutely friggin ridiculous that I actually commited a felony.

Tracers aren’t specifically incendiary, but in extreme circumstances, such as completely dry grassland, fires can be started.

I don’t believe that there isn’t a reasonably easy way to design ammunition that can be traced to the place it was sold.

What about slightly varying the alloy? What about putting a small nearly indestructable identifying sliver of something in the back of the bullet? I find it very difficult to believe that with the micro-etching technology we have today that we couldn’t get a serial number to survive the impact of a bullet.

If you doubled the cost of ammunition would that really make an impact on the budget of your average gun owner? It might make an impact on the profit margin of some ammunition manufacturers.

The alloy already tends to vary slightly. How does one analyze the composition to tell, for sample, the difference between 5.020 percent tin in the copper alloy, and 5.025 percent? Change the alloy too much and it’s properties change- something like three percent chromium turns steel into an entirely different animal: stainless steel.

Microprinting? Possible, yes, but do you understand what forces act on a projectile? If the base of the bullet is exposed lead (very common for jacketed hardnose rounds) that lead is actually eroded measurably in the mere milliseconds of the trip down the barrel, by the several-thousand-degree hot propellant gasses and 50,000+ psi.

To say nothing of the damage it suffers when it impacts something.

An “indestructible sliver” of what? Tungsten? How does one encode the data on it? How does one recover it after the shooting and read that data? A .223 bullet is quite small, the “sliver” would have to be smaller still. There’s just one, presumably, per round- together that adds up to pretty darn low recovery odds.

But hey, if it only doubles the cost of the ammo, and adds just major levels of bureaucracy, manufacturing difficulties, recordkeeping, package tracking and chain-of-custody hassles, it’s all worth it, isn’t it?

Happy- the analogy isn’t perfect, but, just as a quick question about magazine capacities, how does the current federal restriction of ten rounds on magazine capacity affect the DC shooter?

The rest of us, hundreds of thousands who have never used a firearm illegally, should accept that limitation because it might have saved somebody’s life, maybe, theoretically?

And yes, tracers have been known to start grass fires. As have love letters, cigarrettes, kids with matches, fireworks, ad nauseum. Take heart in the fact that they’re not very common. The few “oh, that’s cool” tracer shots wear thin after a while, and they’re usually somewhat more expensive than regular ammo.

“If you doubled the cost of gas, would that really make an impact on the budget of your average car driver? It might make an impact on the profit margin of some gas importers.”

Doubling the cost for some nefarious scheme that has almost no chance of doing anything worthwhile is a ridiculous prospect. Even if you had identifying marks, you can find out what million-round batch spread across the country a round came from - and that’s only POSSIBLY useful if you start a whole lot of ‘registered ammunition’ beaurocratic overhead.

How many murders would be solved if the police could find out which million round batch of ammo a round came from?

Oh, sweet Jesus. So, which step on “Anthracite’s 8-Step Analysis of Bullet ID Debates” are we on now? :rolleyes:

Doc Nickel - typically, any steel with more than 12% Chromium and a majority of iron is considered “stainless”. Some people specify a minimum nickel content of 3% - maybe that’s what you were thinking of, since it’s your namesake?

What kind of gun is the DC area shooter using? Someone here said .223, which I know is the kind the M16 (and AR15 I think) uses. But I can’t imagine using one of those for sniping. Not that I have any experience with guns, though. Are there tranditional-looking long arms that use the .223?

My local TV news (channel 8 in Dallas), for their upper-corner graphic for this story, has an image of what looks like an M16. I’ve thought that this can’t be right, but if it is a .223, can it be?

Yes. The .233 Remington round is popular for predator control and varmint hunting. There are many bolt-action rifles and some pistols chambered for that round.

Why do the police keep showing the public military weapons like the AR-15 when describing the gun the bullet must have been fired from? Is this another way to make ‘assault rifles’ look bad? Because it’s far more likely that the guy is shooting something like a Mini-14. But I guess those aren’t scary enough looking to make for good TV.

As for the cost of ammo - well, THIS shooter already finds the cost of ammunition to be the biggest limiting factor in staying current with my handgun. It’s EXPENSIVE to shoot. That’s one reason why so many people reload their own bullets. Lots of people even spend big money on a .22 caliber handgun for practicing, because they can’t afford to shoot their 9mm or .45 as much as they’d like.

Doubling the cost of ammunition, or even increasing it by 20%, would put a significant burden on the shooting public.

I was Knob Creek all weekend. Lots of 50 BMGs for sale ranging from $2K on up. I was salivating over the Serbu BFG-50. I want one. I want one. I want one.

While I agree that The Media shouldn’t show scary-looking AR-15s for their graphic, and while I agree that there are rifles better suited for the task, AFAIK an AR-15-type rifle has not been ruled out. The fact that a case was found might imply a semi-automatic rifle and that the shooter couldn’t find the spent case. (Of course, the case could have been planted.)

Wouldn’t it be ironic if the shooter turned out to be using a Remington bolt-action single shot silhouette pistol?

And to touch on the OP, would a silhouette pistol be considered a “sniper weapon”?

Nope.

  1. How are you going to find these ‘bad guys’ guns? Search every home in the country, or even every one whose residents used to be legal gunowners? The unintended consequences of that… are a subject for another thread.

  2. Many of us have been buying ‘extra’ guns and ammo and burying them. We know where and how to bury them so they won’t be found.

  3. Hi, Opal!

  4. Simple guns are easy to make in any decent machine shop. I could make a functional, if crude, shotgun out of pipe and fittings from any hardware store.

  5. We can’t seem to prevent drug smuggling, and I think that guns would be, in some ways, easier to smuggle than drugs because they don’t have such a distinctive smell (at least when unfired, the final assembly and test firing could be done in this country).

  6. Guns could still be stolen from the police or military.

Also, remember that guns don’t get used up or worn out, and if shooting it is illegal, ammo won’t get used up soon either.

SenorBeef writes:

> I don’t find it hard to believe, but there are a ridiculous number
> of laws for lots of stuff. I once read that we had more laws
> regulating cabbage than some countries had laws, or
> something similar.

Please note that I am addressing just this statement, not the entire discussion here, which I don’t wish to get involved with. It’s not true that there are 20,000 federal regulations on cabbage. This is an exaggerated version of a common urban legend which claims that there is a federal regulation on the sale of cabbage that’s 26,911 words long. This is false. See the following webpage in Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/govmemo.htm

The Snopes webpage doesn’t give the true U.S. government regulations on cabbage, but I’ve seen them, and they’re only a couple of paragraphs long.

Furthermore, SenorBeef’s statement seems to imply that the U.S. has more regulations than other countries. In fact, I believe that per capita the U.S. has less regulations than many countries.

Kalashnikov - Whoosh :slight_smile:

seems to show the extent of the thought in what drives the laws that are forced on us. tracer ammo - the stuff i see in war movies being used to shoot down airplanes - oh my that is scary we better do something about it for the kids!!

cabbage is a word that is sometimes used to mean various things and stuff - like a widget.

i recall in maryland, the ar-15 style rifle was subject to a series of laws. 1st it was the standard 20 round mag. it was changed, then it was the bayonet lug. new style with no lug, then it was the “flash thingie” at the end of the barrel, the girp, the handle…

may not be the exact order the laws were enacted and may not be all state law but a bunch of seperate laws on just one rifle.

they will get the chump and then there will be another. there has always been a billy the kid, son of sam, bonnie and clyde… and no amount of laws or trashing of the constitution will stop it

enough flap for now - the op had been answered - and i was just glad to read 1 post 504 error seems to be the thing

seems to show the extent of the thought in what drives the laws that are forced on us. tracer ammo - the stuff i see in war movies being used to shoot down airplanes - oh my that is scary we better do something about it for the kids!!

cabbage is a word that is sometimes used to mean various things and stuff - like a widget.

i recall in maryland, the ar-15 style rifle was subject to a series of laws. 1st it was the standard 20 round mag. it was changed, then it was the bayonet lug. new style with no lug, then it was the “flash thingie” at the end of the barrel, the girp, the handle…

may not be the exact order the laws were enacted and may not be all state law but a bunch of seperate laws on just one rifle.

they will get the chump and then there will be another. there has always been a billy the kid, son of sam, bonnie and clyde… and no amount of laws or trashing of the constitution will stop it

enough flap for now - the op had been answered - and i was just glad to read 1 post 504 error seems to be the thing