# bannings **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 14, 2001, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505 "2001-07-14T20:18:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/61 "2001-07-17T12:25:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mu Mu \* > **1) Anthracite’s study, while methodical and with statistical validity for its main objectives, was not “random”. Picking names at uniform intervals is the opposite of random. Uniform intervals can tell you many things, but percentage of Banned is not among them.** Quite true - I hope I didn’t claim it was random somewhere. :o > [@](#): > > **(To look around the list like Anthracite did, just …** I hope I’m not a “Board toadie” for saying this. I begged a couple times, now I beg again, on behalf of the Board. **Please** , good people, do not exercise this sort of mass sampling again on the already overloaded Board without permission! **Tuba** , **Lynn** , anyone official - do you not agree with me? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/62 "2001-07-17T12:49:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Thanks for noticing that I have an interest in the administration of the Board in general and banning lore in specific - the same as most mods, judging from the names above. You’re welcome. Its just a pity that this is the ONLY interest you seem to display on the boards. > [@](#): > > But that’s not what brought me here today. It was my name turning up in a search to see if I’ve gotten responses to my other posts. So, since you called me for my opinion, I’ll give it. Would you have restricted your search to the BBQ pit and containing the words “Mod” as well? > [@](#): > > This time we even have a couple of the rational mods, Chronos and Arnold, being rational. And of course Lynn and Tuba being irrational. If you assume the administration and rules of the board irrational, your sentences make sense. > [@](#): > > Lynn says it is anti-board to correct Tuba’s guess of 2% with an actual count of 3%. Is this rational? No. Lynn says it is against the best running of the board to exhaust server time by conducting pointless searches in aide of a frivolous question. While the question is valid, the current operation of the board is the most important thing. > [@](#): > > Then she says Ma only comes to complain, but a) she doesn’t come just for that, as a couple of people noticed, but also b) correcting a guess to a count is not a complaint, but in the spirit of the “Seeking Truth, even when it contradicts bureaucrats and their Received opinions” theme of this board. Not entirely true. In answer to A) the only person to back her up looks like someones sock, IMHO. > [@](#): > > (Aside- I’ve never understood the theory that Ed and Lynn are the same person. Even split personalities don’t split that much. Ed is dry and humorless, but rational. Lynn is tacky and humorless, but irrational. Logic free and logic proof.) There is a theory that Ed and Lynn are the same person? Has anyone else heard this? Nice way to get an attack in on 2 of our administrators, by the way…. > [@](#): > > 1. Anthracite’s study, while methodical and with statistical validity for its main objectives, was not “random”. Picking names at uniform intervals is the opposite of random. Uniform intervals can tell you many things, but percentage of Banned is not among them. once again, not entirely true. There is no way to determine who the next poster will be based solely on the Poster ID number. There is no set order for users to sign up, as they are assigned the poster number after they are entered into the database. By picking a number randomly, and then following a set formula to pick the next number, could only be deciphered if you have the original number to begin with. While the method she used wouldn’t be secure enough to encrypt anything, the method is valid for the use she intended. > [@](#): > > 1. Banned names are not random, but highly clustered. Of course there are some arising at random points. However, in numerical terms the process of banning forces clusters. Posters who get into Catch Me If You Can games of changing the last digit of their names, or the number of blanks preceding their names (as was once possible), create dozens of banned names all registered in the same day. I agree with you there, but at the same time it would not happen frequently enough to disturb Anthracites method. There are other users registering at the same time, remember, at a frequent enough rate to disrupt the flow of “socks”, as it were. > [@](#): > > 1. “Warning” posters on a thread is not logical. We have email for genuine warnings. There is no particular reason to think Ma knows Lynn came in after her to whine. We all know Lynn is too sensitive and takes things too personally, but Ma was not responding to Lynn, but the OP. So that was a cover in case she wants to ban her later, she can pretend there was a warning, and the board toadies will agree with her. A warning is a warning is a warning. And agreeing with the administration does not a toadie make, nor disagreeing with them makes a dissident. Ma Parrot only seems to appear to criticize the running of the board. If she dosen’t like it, well, there are plenty of other sandpits to play in. We are here to fight Ignorance. Not to post drive-by bitches everytime someone breaks the rules. (Oh, Jally, I know your reading this, so I’ll add this for your benefit. The above policy does not make me, or the board, a Communist). > [@](#): > > 1. The contention of whichever airhead above that Ma had better produce the list “within the hour” is stupid even for a troll hunter. Ma, like most of us probably only comes here every week or so when there is a new Straight Dope column; the vast majority of our 15-thousand+ members have real lives outside the board. (No offence to those of you who don’t.) Firstly, we don’t need to hunt trolls. They do a good enough job of coming to us. Secondly, If Ma only comes here to read the Straight Dope Column, why the hell is complaining about the board admin the only thing she does? Ma Parrot, please prove me wrong. Lets talk about ThermoNuclear physics, or the Lakers or anything, just stop looking back in Anger all the time. We all have lives off the board. Its our lives on the board that make this place so interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Starbury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Starbury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starbury)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/63 "2001-07-17T12:59:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > It was my name turning up in a search to see if I’ve gotten responses to my other posts. > > Liar. It’s impossible to search on your user name. The search engine requires 3 consecutive alphanumeric characters. \*\* Search on **MuMu** , not **Mu Mu** …it will bring up **TwistofFate’s** post on page 1. ---
**Author:** ![Vinnie\_Virginslayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/53a042/32.png) [@Vinnie\_Virginslayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vinnie_Virginslayer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/64 "2001-07-17T13:47:09Z")
Just a few questions for the Mods since we have them: -What is the worst single thing a poster has ever done to get banned? -Who is the worst ever banned SDMB member? -Who is the closest right now to getting booted and why? (I’m being good! I’m being good! 😃 ) -Is there anyone you banned that looking back you thought . … well, maybe we were being a little heavy handed? -Which poster is the best at “pushing the envelope” but never gets banned, they just know whaen to back off at the right time? -If there was one member who you would like to see EVERYONE at the SDMB model themselves after in terms of Message Board etiquette while still being entertaining and provocative, who would it be? ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/65 "2001-07-17T14:21:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Search on MuMu, not Mu Mu…it will bring up TwistofFate’s post on page 1. That doesn’t work either. If someone says “MuMu” in a post then you can search for **keyword** “MuMu”, but as UncleBeer pointed out you get nothing when you type Mu Mu or MuMu into the user name search. You can’t even do a keyword search of “Mu Mu”. Not enough consecutive letters. Considering that the only way Mu Mu can see if anyone responded to his posts through the search engine is to hope they mentioned him by name and mistyped his name and then search for that typo, I think Mu’s lying, too. It’s just not logical. \ > [@](#): > > The list Ma mentioned is not imaginary, nor a secret. At least it wasn’t. It was collected over time by the posters at [http://out.at/socks](http://out.at/socks)… > Ma, like most of us probably only comes here every week or so when there is a new Straight Dope column; the vast majority of our 15-thousand+ members have real lives outside the board. Heh. Seems to me if you are painstakingly collecting a list of 500 posters banned from the SDMB, your “real lives outside the board” must be infinitesimal. Look MuMu, MaMa, TexMex. We’re not gonna strain the search engine trying to make a list for you. You can choose to believe the random sample that was perviously done, or a guy who has an axe to grind against the board and conveniently doesn’t have enough time to post or email a list. Pfft. The banned list ain’t gonna happen. Period. I’m sure most people will survive that disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/66 "2001-07-17T14:30:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Living Dead Guy \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Astroboy14 \* > > This place is unique for many reasons, and some of them have to do with the ground rules: **#1: DON’T BE A JERK! This allows us to discuss things, debate, and argue WITHIN boundaries…** > > Apparently, you forgot to add the hidden part pertaining to this rule, which dictates the above, need only have strict application to the “members” of this board. > \*\* Well, **DLG** , I’m NOT going to disagree with you… in fact I’m going to AGREE with you!:eek: But so what? Life ain’t fair, and any whining that you or I might do about it ain’t gonna make it fair… Allow me, please, to demonstrate (and do not take this as an attack, please. It is not… is is an attempt to show you, and some others how I feel about this issue…): -When I was a child, I had to go to bed at 7 PM, while my parents were allowed to stay up as late as they wanted!! WTF? Where’s the fairness there? -When I was a freshman in high school, I could not leave the campus during lunch! The seniors could! Again, WTF?? What’s fair about that? -At work, my boss can take off at 2 PM to go see his mistress, but I’m chained to my desk until 5 PM Mon-Fri.!! What the fuck?? That’s FAIR?? -When I trip and fall down the previously mentioned stairs, I break my wrist! An astronaut in the space station trips over a laser cannon or something and floats harmlessly away!!! WHAT THE FUCK? Is THAT fair? -I, here on Earth, live 70 years (if I’m lucky!;)), while a space traveller zooming through space at a speed close to that of light gets to live (from MY perspective) 10,000 years! WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK? Fair? I think NOT!! So, the rules that most of us live under do not apply to everyone. So sorry! Admittedly, it does cheese me off when a guy who inheirited a billion dollars from his parents, and never worked a day in his life, buys a yacht and sets sail with a dozen scantily-clad babes when I can’t afford a rowboat or a place to park it (as luck would have it, I did somehow happen to get a babe, so sometimes life IS good to us peons!:))… but that’s just life! We need to get used to it. The **mods** and **admins** have special privileges? Well, yeah… they can bend, or even break, the rules when necessary. Color me surprised!:eek: I mean, they only **maintain, supervise, police, administer, monitor, direct, observe, regulate, coordinate, organize, edit, govern, and oversee** the boards that you and I love (yes, I broke out the thesaurus). Why do they do this? The pay? Nope! The glory ( **mod x** is an asshole because poster **y** got banned!!! Repeat at least once a week…)? Nope! The really cool coffee mugs? Well, maybe… some of the **mods** and **admins** are kinda weird [sup]in a good way! No offense! Or bannings!!![/sup] As a power-trip? I doubt it (if you get off on the power of banning someone from posting to a message board on the Internet, you are REALLY sick, and need professional help! Note, please, that I am NOT ruling this possibility out! As I said before, some of the **mods** and **admins** ARE kinda weird! And **Coldy** MAY WELL need to seek professional help when he finds out what we did to his house! [sup]Sorry, dude! I was drunk![/sup] So why, then, do they do it? My answer is that they love this strange, volitile, peculiar, fun-as-shit message board as much as you and I do! And therefore they are willing to give up their time and endure a certain amount of grief from (some of) the regular posters to help keep it going and vibrant! In short, I believe (and you and others may disagree… please feel free to do so! (This is the **SDMB**! HUZZAH!) that the **mods** and **admins** do what they do to keep this board functioning as a free-wheeling mixture of diverse personalities discussing and debating and arguing about many topics WITHOUT disolving into an acrimonious, unproductive chaos of name-calling and bile. I trust them to do this… and I think they are doing a good job! Sure, a **mod** or **admin** may have a bad day, and ban someone without due cause… it _could_ happen (though I haven’t seen it yet!). But I trust that the other **mods** would rectify the situation in a timely manner if that DID happen. That’s MY opinion and view of things. You may disagree at will.😉 ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/67 "2001-07-17T14:32:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vinnie Virginslayer \* > \*\*Just a few questions for the Mods since we have them: > > …\*\* Ladies and gentlemen, observe this perfectly normal 10-foot pole. Now watch with amazement as we don’t touch that post with it! ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/68 "2001-07-17T14:41:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Starbury \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > It was my name turning up in a search to see if I’ve gotten responses to my other posts. > > > > Liar. It’s impossible to search on your user name. The search engine requires 3 consecutive alphanumeric characters. \*\* > > Search on **MuMu** , not **Mu Mu** …it will bring up **TwistofFate’s** post on page 1. \*\* True, but that doesn’t make Mu Shu less of a liar. Why would he be searching to see if someone misspelled his name? But is there any doubt that like a worm crawling from the slime and filth, that Mu Shu would emerge in a “bannings” thread. Since he only knows one note, it’s not surprising that he’ll take every opportunity to sing along to “bitch about the board” threads. Lynn, doesn’t this toad fall under the [“Goldie”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=44676) rule? > [@](#): > > For that matter, I think that I’m going to start doing searches on a lot of people tonight. Anyone who is only griping about the way the message board is being run will be banned. Anyone who is MOSTLY griping about the message board will likely be banned. If your only posts are complaints about the way this place is run, then I’m gonna show you the door. Fenris, who’s had it with this sort of cretin. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/69 "2001-07-17T15:37:28Z")
Now, now, **Fenris**. I bet **Me Too**. . . er, **Mu Mu** is absolutely correct about one thing: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mu Mu \* > Banned names are not random, but highly clustered In fact, I’m just gonna kick back and see how accurate that hypothesis is. 🙂 Incidentally, I notice upon quoting him that **Mr. Mu** has an extra space at the end of his name. Not sure whether that’s germane to anything, but he does seem to know a lot about how people have screwed around with extra spaces in their names. > [@](#): > > The list Ma mentioned is not imaginary, nor a secret. At least it wasn’t. It was collected over time by the posters at [http://out.at/socks](http://out.at/socks) . Sadly, that board was recently shuttered when CoolBoard went out of the free forum business. Oh, the horror! Where will all those poor socks go now for their virtual circle jerks? ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/70 "2001-07-17T16:13:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _minty green_ > Oh, the horror! Where will all those poor socks go now for their virtual circle jerks? They’re not missing much. I visited, and it was hardly the full biscuit. In partial defence of Ma Parrott: she has been better since her last whinge, posting some quite respectable stuff. Mu Mu’s no Ma though. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/71 "2001-07-17T16:14:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*We all have lives off the board. Its our lives on the board that make this place so interesting. \*\* We do? Damn…I never get the memos. ---
**Author:** ![Hibbins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ce73a5/32.png) [@Hibbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hibbins)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/72 "2001-07-17T16:17:00Z")
Just a nitpick, but Ma never mentioned a list. Anthracite inferred there was a list and in fact was the first to mention the word “list” in regard to Ma’s mention of keeping track of the number of banned. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/73 "2001-07-17T16:24:57Z")
Why Mods are Bad By Captain Amazing (age 8) I do not like mods. This is because they are bad. They are bad because they are mean. Sometimes they ban people. They ban people for arguing with them. When mods tell you to do something but you don’t agree, they ban you. Some times they block you. That is like banning, but they don’t say they ban you. That is very mean because it confuses other people who are not banned. Sometimes they fight because they have sexy wives. People like to see them fight. Ed is not Lynn, but they both are not funny. Twist of Fate is a communist but he is not a mod. Mods are scary. When I grow up I want to be a mod because then people will be scared of me. Or a fireman because then I can ride in the fire truck with dogs and put out fires. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/74 "2001-07-17T16:38:42Z")
Yeah! A Mod told me I’d shoot my eye out! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/75 "2001-07-17T16:54:40Z")
I have to admit that I do side with this whole “don’t like mods” thing. Never did like the Who. More of a rocker. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/76 "2001-07-17T17:02:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hibbins \* > **Just a nitpick, but Ma never mentioned a list. Anthracite inferred there was a list and in fact was the first to mention the word “list” in regard to Ma’s mention of keeping track of the number of banned.** > [@](#): > > in·fer (n-fûr) > > 1. To conclude from evidence or premises. > > 2. To reason from circumstance; surmise: _We can infer that his motive in publishing the diary was less than honorable_. > > 3. To lead to as a consequence or conclusion: “Socrates argued that a statue inferred the existence of a sculptor” (Academy). > > 4. To hint; imply. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ma Parrot \* > \*\*I’ve been keeping score, and the total is over 500 that have been “banned” (where the word appears under the name). \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*So…do you have a list of these 500 or more? Are you certain it’s that many? \*\* Did I in fact “infer”, or did I ask a question? I guess in the act of asking the question, it seems that I may have “inferred” there was a list. Then again, how else could one make a detailed claim of “over 500”, and also claim that they have been “keeping score”, without some sort of list? Or instead of having a list, did they just carve notches in the butt of their revolver - one per each banned member? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/77 "2001-07-17T17:08:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hibbins \* > \*\*Just a nitpick, but Ma never mentioned a list. Anthracite inferred there was a list and in fact was the first to mention the word “list” in regard to Ma’s mention of keeping track of the number of banned. \*\* I disagree. Ma Parrot said:\*\* > [@](#): > > I’ve been keeping score, and the total is over 500 that have been “banned” (where the word appears under the name). \*\* Yeah, **Anth** may have been the first to say the word “list”, but if Ma’s been “keeping score”, she pretty much _has_ to have a list of names or she’s mindlessly counting the word “banned”, regardless of what name is above the word. So either she’s full of shit, or she has a list (which, I notice she didn’t provide) Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/78 "2001-07-17T17:13:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*I have to admit that I do side with this whole “don’t like mods” thing. > > Never did like the Who. More of a rocker. \*\* Gary, great minds think [alike](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=61443)! 😉 Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/79 "2001-07-17T17:22:24Z")
Great minds _still_ think alike, even if one of 'em can’t post [links](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=61443) ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505/80 "2001-07-17T18:06:37Z")
Well, everything else in **Mu** ’s post has been addressed, I believe but: > [@](#): > > There was also the time when Ed declared that “all names registered yesterday are toast”. Correct me if I’m misremembering, but wasn’t that due to _a problem with the board software_, according to the post it was included in? And if I’m remembering that correctly, is **Mu** twisting the facts to support his case, or accusing Ed of lying about the circumstances? **Mu**? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bannings/72505.md?page=5)