# "Barack...he's talking down to black people...telling niggers how to behave" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 17, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789 "2008-07-17T02:35:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/21 "2008-07-17T14:54:07Z")
Maybe, like you, they didn’t consider it newsworthy? ETA: or, what he said. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/22 "2008-07-17T15:41:57Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Who cares if he did say it? So what? [/QUOTE] Can I quote you on that the next time someone on the right says something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/23 "2008-07-17T15:44:38Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Can I quote you on that the next time someone on the right says something like that? [/QUOTE] If they’re black. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/24 "2008-07-17T15:49:26Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] If they’re black. [/QUOTE] What a crock. I don’t know what world you live in, but in my world, the same rules apply to everyone. If we want to stop using “nigger”, then everyone needs to stop using that word. If not, then so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/25 "2008-07-17T16:15:20Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] What a crock. I don’t know what world you live in, but in my world, the same rules apply to everyone. If we want to stop using “nigger”, then everyone needs to stop using that word. If not, then so be it. [/QUOTE] This, in my opinion, is the crock. I think there’s a justified double standard. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/26 "2008-07-17T16:20:45Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This, in my opinion, is the crock. I think there’s a justified double standard. [/QUOTE] Eh. If Blacks can use it in a non-offensive manner, than Whites can, too. That doesn’t mean it’s always non-offensive, but if we are all to live in the same society, then we need to all adhere to the same rules. Your kind of thinking is what led to separate but equal-- different rules depending on the color of one’s skin. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/27 "2008-07-17T16:26:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Guys talk like that all the time with and about their friends. “I’m gonna cut his nuts off” is actually kind of mild. [/QUOTE] None of my friends talk like that. Must hang with a different crowd. When the Reverend Jesse Hymietown Jackson isn’t busy banging out bastards he makes his money pimping the race card. His gravitas would fit in a thimble. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/28 "2008-07-17T16:43:16Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Eh. If Blacks can use it in a non-offensive manner, than Whites can, too. [/quote] No they can’t. > [@](#): > > That doesn’t mean it’s always non-offensive, but if we are all to live in the same society, then we need to all adhere to the same rules. Your kind of thinking is what led to separate but equal-- different rules depending on the color of one’s skin. We’re not talking about laws here, just social perceptions of language. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/29 "2008-07-17T16:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No they can’t. [/quote] Why not? > [@](#): > > We’re not talking about laws here, just social perceptions of language. Look up the meaning of “led”. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/30 "2008-07-17T16:49:05Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] Far be it from me to defend Jackson, but there is a difference between using a word knowingly publicly (which this wasn’t even though it was idiotic of him not to realize that it actually was) and in private conversation. I don’t count this as hypocrisy, just stupidity. **Mosier** hard to imagine how you can say that if you’ve actually seen the clip. “I wanna cut his nuts off.” … and the hand gesture at the time is priceless. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I hadn’t actually seen the video before I made that comment. I had read a Yahoo news article that implied the meaning I used earlier. It misquoted him as saying “Barack Obama is talking down to black people…he’s going to get his nuts chopped off”. Now that I’ve actually seen the video I realize my mistake. That really was a monumentally stupid thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/31 "2008-07-17T16:55:11Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Why not? [/quote] Because it’s racist when white people say it and it’s _not_ racist when black people say it. I don’t know why that’s so hard to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/32 "2008-07-17T17:00:55Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Because it’s racist when white people say it and it’s _not_ racist when black people say it. I don’t know why that’s so hard to understand. [/QUOTE] I had a friend while I was in college, a white girl, who would call her black friends “nigga” all the time. She wasnt racist. I understand that it’s not _all_ that unusual, if you’re kind of accepted into the crowd. Oh, unless you meant it’s racist when white people say it except when they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/33 "2008-07-17T17:01:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Because it’s racist when white people say it and it’s _not_ racist when black people say it. [/quote] Says you. You’re not the authority on what is or what is not racist. In fact, that “rule” is itself racist, by the standard definition of the term. > [@](#): > > I don’t know why that’s so hard to understand. Because it’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/34 "2008-07-17T17:06:28Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Eh. If Blacks can use it in a non-offensive manner, than Whites can, too. That doesn’t mean it’s always non-offensive, but if we are all to live in the same society, then we need to all adhere to the same rules. Your kind of thinking is what led to separate but equal-- different rules depending on the color of one’s skin. [/QUOTE] We could go about this until the cows come home… _mmm, [black cow](http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink1279.html)_… but I don’t agree with that description of what **Dio** said. The bottom line is this, in my view - and this is how it’s always been - is that context matters, and the identity of the person speaking is part of context. You can say that’s unfair, but I don’t think it really is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/35 "2008-07-17T17:15:15Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] We could go about this until the cows come home… _mmm, [black cow](http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink1279.html)_… but I don’t agree with that description of what **Dio** said. The bottom line is this, in my view - and this is how it’s always been - is that context matters, and the identity of the person speaking is part of context. You can say that’s unfair, but I don’t think it really is. [/QUOTE] Of course context matters. But the color of one’s skin isn’t the only context. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/36 "2008-07-17T17:23:25Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Of course context matters. But the color of one’s skin isn’t the only context. [/QUOTE] It’s the most important one, and honestly, I think complaining about the N-word double standard is just gamesmanship. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/37 "2008-07-17T17:24:12Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Of course context matters. But the color of one’s skin isn’t the only context. [/QUOTE] It certainly isn’t, which is part of why I say the identity of the speaker - which can include skin color but is a much, much bigger category. I’m sure you have seen other threads on this board where this issue was broached. Almost invariably, a white Doper will say something about how it’s okay for black people to call each other [nigger/nigga], and a black Doper will come along to explain that actually, plenty of black people are _not_ okay with being called either term, particularly in polite conversation. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/38 "2008-07-17T17:27:56Z")
People don’t know how to use curses effectively. I think this comes down to the fact that most people are ignorant of the art of cursing. Jesse Jackson was being sarcastic. That’s not the same thing as glorifying the word in rap music. He’s making a point about Obama looking down on ‘niggers’. You know like Chris Rock’s “There are black people and there are niggers.”, kind of thing. The thing about Hip Hop is a complete and total misdirection of the issue. They are completely unrelated. Jackson wasn’t glorifying the term, he was using it to denote derision. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/39 "2008-07-17T17:31:14Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] It certainly isn’t, which is part of why I say the identity of the speaker - which can include skin color but is a much, much bigger category. I’m sure you have seen other threads on this board where this issue was broached. Almost invariably, a white Doper will say something about how it’s okay for black people to call each other [nigger/nigga], and a black Doper will come along to explain that actually, plenty of black people are _not_ okay with being called either term, particularly in polite conversation. [/QUOTE] I can’t tell if you’re agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. All I’m saying is that the word “nigger” is not automatically racist if it is uttered by a White person. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn’t. Context matters. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789/40 "2008-07-17T17:36:48Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Jackson wasn’t glorifying the term, he was using it to denote derision. [/QUOTE] Uh-huh… and has he at any time muttered that he was gonna cut Chris Rock’s nuts off (_hmmph!_) ? Anyway, I (though white) reserve the right to say “nigger” or anything else, and I’ll face the repercussions, if any, on an incident-by-incident basis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-hes-talking-down-to-black-people-telling-niggers-how-to-behave/456789.md?page=3)