# Barack Obama and affirmative action **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-and-affirmative-action/437066 "2008-02-10T20:21:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-and-affirmative-action/437066/1 "2008-02-10T20:21:33Z")
Sort of a followup to [this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453982&page=1&pp=50) There is an ancient Vulcan proverb: “Only Nixon could go to China.” Perhaps only Barack Obama can revisit the basic assumptions of affirmative action. In [_The Next American Nation,_](http://www.amazon.com/NEXT-AMERICAN-NATION-Nationalism-Revolution/dp/0684825031/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201981360&sr=1-1) Michael Lind argues strongly that race-based affirmative action should be abolished, while at the same time a large number of vigorous “social escalator” programs should be introduced to improve the lot and the opportunities of poor and working-class Americans of all races. I find this persuasive. (Just don’t do the one without the other.) And maybe it would take an African-American POTUS to do it. But would he? I can’t find anything about AA on his [website.](http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/) ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-and-affirmative-action/437066/2 "2008-02-10T20:57:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Stephanopoulos: You’ve been a strong supporter of affirmative action. > > ``` > Obama: Yes. > > Stephanopoulos: And you're a constitutional law professor so let's go back in the classroom.....I'm your student. I say Professor, you and your wife went to Harvard Law School. Got plenty of money, you're running for president. Why should your daughters when they go to college get affirmative action? > > Obama: Well, first of all, I think that my daughters should probably be treated by any admissions officer as folks who are pretty advantaged, and I think that there's nothing wrong with us taking that into account as we consider admissions policies at universities. I think that we should take into account white kids who have been disadvantaged and have grown up in poverty and shown themselves to have what it takes to succeed. So I don't think those concepts are mutually exclusive. I think what we can say is that in our society race and class still intersect, that there are a lot of African American kids who are still struggling, that even those who are in the middle class may be first generation as opposed to fifth or sixth generation college attendees, and that we all have an interest in bringing as many people together to help build this country. > > Stephanopoulos: Sandra Day O'Connor wrote that in 25 years affirmative action may no longer be necessary. Is she right? > > Obama: I would like to think that if we make good decisions and we invest in early childhood education, improved K through 12, if we have done what needs to be done to ensure that kids who are qualified to go to college can afford it, that affirmative action becomes a diminishing tool for us to achieve racial equality in this society. > > ``` [http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/05/obama\_on\_abcs\_this\_week\_with\_g.html](http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/05/obama_on_abcs_this_week_with_g.html) ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-and-affirmative-action/437066/3 "2008-02-10T21:02:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Michael Lind argues strongly that race-based affirmative action should be abolished, while at the same time a large number of vigorous “social escalator” programs should be introduced to improve the lot and the opportunities of poor and working-class Americans of all races. Just looking at the recent name-discrimination threads, where people openly admit to not hiring names associated with the lower classes, I agree that abolishing classism would actually do this country good. In my mind, you can’t be against racism but tolerate class bigotry. The two are kind of intertined. But I’m skeptical that people, even those who say they would be for it, would really be for it. Some of the same arguments that people use against race-based discrimination can be applied to class-based discrimination (e.g., lowering of standards, more qualified applicants losing “their” spots, individuals being “rewarded” for circumstances out of their control, officials creating an arbitrary vision of “diversity”, etc.) Additionally, at least learning institutions already use a scheme for giving preference to “hardship” cases–as well as folks from under-represented geographical regions (rural Apallachia, for instance). That’s why I’m suspicious of allegations that AA in the educational sector only sees race to the exclusion of more important factors. It doesn’t. I’m curious what a “social escalator” program would entail. Seems to me the basic infrastructure (free school, libraries, scholarships) is already there to get people out of poverty, but for lots of reasons it just isn’t working. Substance abuse, out-of-wedlock births, teenage pregnancy, the scarcity of low-skill, family-supporting blue collar jobs…until these areas are improved, I don’t see how a “social escalator” can rescue but a few highly motivated individuals. What we need is something massive that will clean up the underlying factors of poverty. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-and-affirmative-action/437066/4 "2008-02-10T21:09:35Z")
Affirmative action is an effective, pragmatic thing. However, human nature being what it is, it does detract from unity and causes displeasure to some students and workers. When it comes to moral dilemmas, people like to err in their own favor 🙂 So, while I absolutely approve of the introduction of _“large number of vigorous ‘social escalator’ programs to improve the lot and the opportunities of poor and working-class Americans of all races”_, I think acting to improve racial unity and ensuring all inequalities are removed should get a special priority if we’re to have a clean conscience and avoid big problems down the line. The parts of affirmative action that gets results towards those goals should stay, the others sould be replaced/removed.