# Barack Obama is a terrorist.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [October 1, 2012, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378 "2012-10-01T11:38:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/41 "2012-10-01T15:54:58Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> So if voters endorse terrorist tactics, it’s ok. Wow.
And already the unsupportable “it’s terrorism!” charge has been downgraded to “terrorist tactics.” Sorry, but it’s not terrorism. This is also a gross distortion of what I wrote.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/42 "2012-10-01T15:56:35Z")
When you argue that the government of a country is a terrorist organization that the entirety of the nation actively supports, you must know in advance that you’re not going to get much agreement when you tell people that the only moral position is the one they have never used.
I’ve been around since the 60s, when similar arguments were being offered. And for far better reasons that today. The Johnson and Nixon administrations really were committing utterly immoral acts and lying to the public about them. Johnson quit, but Nixon went on to declare war on his own people, the half of America who didn’t agree with him. Boy, the Good Old Days.
The answer then is the same as the answer today. Reform from within. Shake up the dominant parties and shift their worldviews. This is a process rather than a thing and takes decades. The parties today, however, are not the parties of the 60s.
Whether you advocate violence, as some did in the 60s, or withdrawal, as a third party protest vote is, you’re doing it wrong. It can’t work. You may feel better about yourself, but in reality all it does is give the people you find most immoral the most power. It’s self-defeating.
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### Author:  [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/43 "2012-10-01T15:57:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> The Obama administration targets suspected enemy fighters-
Read: adult males.
[
> [@](#):
>
> The logic behind Obama’s novel approach, say counterterrorism officials, is that young men in an area of known terrorist activity are likely “up to no good,” justifying the use of deadly force against them even when there is no evidence that they’re actually engaged in or even supporting terrorism. But by counting all military-age males as militants, the Pentagon is able to claim low collateral death figures.
]([Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More](http://news.yahoo.com/report-obama-redefines-militant-avoid-counting-civilian-drone-172500804.html))
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/44 "2012-10-01T16:02:51Z")
> [@Grumman](#):
>
> Read: adult males.
Adult males also included al-Libi and al-Awlaki, may they rest in pieces. Note the words “areas of known terrorist activity” in your quote. What you’re describing is a way the administration may be avoiding acknowledging civilian casualties, which (if true) is a bad thing, and so are the mistaken strikes that have killed significant numbers of people. However that’s still not terrorism and your suggestion that adult males are being targeted at random is very misleading.
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### Author:  [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/45 "2012-10-01T16:04:15Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> Wrong. Neither of those people would be the slightest use as president. None at all. They have zero political capital or standing, and would be chum in the water for the most basic of Washingtonian feeders. Quit wasting our time with your hallucinations of the underdog and join the real world.
I agree. The thread should have ended right here.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/46 "2012-10-01T16:05:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> I think it’s pretty simple- Obama’s national security team has convinced him that this is the best way, with little risk to American lives, to kill terrorists who are planning to kill Americans and our allies, and that the collateral damage is an acceptable, if unfortunate, consequence.
Agreed. I’m an Ohioan who agrees with about 90% of what the President has done in his first term and thinks Romney would be _far_ more aggressive abroad. Despite some qualms about drone strikes, I will very happily vote for Obama.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/47 "2012-10-01T16:07:00Z")
> [@Grumman](#):
>
> Read: adult males.
>
> [url=[Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More](http://news.yahoo.com/report-obama-redefines-militant-avoid-counting-civilian-drone-172500804.html)]
That’s not what it says. What it says is bad enough; don’t make it sound worse.
Obama is NOT targeting random adult males in an effort to terrorize people. What his administration is doing is targeting suspected terrorists, and then pretending there were no innocence killed by counting innocent dudes as terrorists. That’s a sleazy awful thing to do, but it’s not at all the same thing as targeting innocent people.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/48 "2012-10-01T16:08:12Z")
Doe the OP realize that if _every single Doper_ voted for one of her/his pet candidates, the person voted into office would either be Obama or Romney?
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/49 "2012-10-01T16:10:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> I’d expect most Republicans to _support_ mass murder, kidnapping and torture (although probably not under those names). The usual complaint I hear from the Right is that we aren’t brutal _enough_.
That’s certainly why I’ve always voted & probably always will vote Republican!
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### Author:  [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/50 "2012-10-01T16:22:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> And already the unsupportable “it’s terrorism!” charge has been downgraded to “terrorist tactics.” Sorry, but it’s not terrorism. This is also a gross distortion of what I wrote.
Not really.
The hell are you talking about “unsupported”? They intentionally targeted areas where civilians were guaranteed to be in order to frighten people from supporting a group that holds power in that specific region. No more support needed.
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### Author:  [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/51 "2012-10-01T16:29:24Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#):
>
> I plan to vote for Kodos.
But that will cancel out my vote for Nixon’s head!
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/52 "2012-10-01T16:31:19Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> Not really.
Yes, really. It’s not even close. I wrote that the tactic isn’t terrorism for several different reasons and that it’s also a method used publicly by an elected official in a democratic system, which is worlds away from the deliberate targeting of civilians by terrorist groups, who don’t answer to anybody. Your response was to distort that into ‘so voters can approve terrorist tactics OMG WTF?’ The problem is that in order to respond to my statements, you not only had to change your terms (which is an acknowledgement that I was onto something), you had to totally distort what I was saying (also a tacit acknowledgement of my point). Sorry, this is really a losing effort. The drone strikes are problematic and need to be used very carefully because they’re prone to errors and abuses, but they’re not terrorism.
> [@](#):
>
> They intentionally targeted areas where civilians were guaranteed to be in order to frighten people from supporting a group that holds power in that specific region.
I eagerly await your cite demonstrating that the purpose of the program is “frightening people” rather than attacking a terrorist group.
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### Author:  [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/53 "2012-10-01T16:32:32Z")
From the cited report:
> [@](#):
>
> The US practice of striking one area multiple times, and evidence that it has killed rescuers, makes both community members and humanitarian workers afraid or unwilling to assist injured victims. Some community members shy away from gathering in groups, including important tribal dispute-resolution bodies, out of fear that they may attract the attention of drone operators. Some parents choose to keep their children home, and children injured or traumatized by strikes have dropped out of school. Waziris told our researchers that the strikes have undermined cultural and religious practices related to burial, and made family members afraid to attend funerals. In addition, families who lost loved ones or their homes in drone strikes now struggle to support themselves.
In other words **terrorism**.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/54 "2012-10-01T16:34:12Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> In other words **terrorism**.
I have to admit I wasn’t convinced because “people are afraid” doesn’t come anywhere close to making a tactic terrorism and doesn’t have speak to the purpose of the strategy, but then I saw you’d deployed bolded text.
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### Author:  [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/55 "2012-10-01T16:40:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> I have to admit I wasn’t convinced because “people are afraid” doesn’t come anywhere close to making a tactic terrorism and doesn’t have speak to the purpose of the strategy, but then I saw you’d deployed bolded text.
Aren’t you a little old for sarcasm? Great way to avoid the content.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/56 "2012-10-01T16:41:28Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> In November, Democrats will head to the polls to do the exact same thing. Yourself included. How do you have a right to criticize them?
You don’t know him very well, do you?
At any rate, I’d just like to say that I’m relieved that the subject line of this thread says that Obama is a terrorist _for things he has actually done_, and not because he has dark skin or is supposedly a Muslim.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/57 "2012-10-01T16:45:32Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> Great way to avoid the content.
I responded to the content: the fact that people are frightened doesn’t make it terrorism. I was going to say that’s a bad analysis, but in fact it’s more of a word game than an analysis. Sorry. Military strikes against a terrorist group are not terrorism even if people are frightened of them (as if full-scale war or attacks by a terrorist group aren’t frightening).
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/58 "2012-10-01T16:47:33Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> In November, Democrats will head to the polls to do the exact same thing. Yourself included. How do you have a right to criticize them?
Because I do no such thing. I’ve never voted for someone in my life; only against.
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> Adult males also included al-Libi and al-Awlaki, may they rest in pieces. Note the words “areas of known terrorist activity” in your quote. What you’re describing is a way the administration may be avoiding acknowledging civilian casualties, which (if true) is a bad thing, and so are the mistaken strikes that have killed significant numbers of people. However that’s still not terrorism and your suggestion that adult males are being targeted at random is very misleading.
Killing the adult (and by “adult” we mean “older than ten or so”) males in a region just for being there is more commonly known as a massacre; not just terrorism. I’m reminded of the Mongols killing every boy too tall to walk under a table without ducking. This is terrorism at best. We’d certainly call it terrorism and massacre if it was being done to whites and Christians and not brown people and Muslims.
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> Yes, really. It’s not even close. I wrote that the tactic isn’t terrorism for several different reasons and that it’s also a method used publicly by an elected official in a democratic system, which is worlds away from the deliberate targeting of civilians by terrorist groups, who don’t answer to anybody
Which basically amounts to a variation on “terrorist is what the big army calls the little army”. And popular terrorism is still terrorism.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/59 "2012-10-01T16:55:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Killing the adult (and by “adult” we mean “older than ten or so”) males in a region just for being there is more commonly known as a massacre
That’s not is what being discussed. What’s being discussed is males killed in drone strikes being _described afterward_ as likely terrorists rather than civilians.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-is-a-terrorist/636378/60 "2012-10-01T16:58:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> That’s not is what being discussed. What’s being discussed is males killed in drone strikes being _described afterward_ as likely terrorists rather than civilians.
We are doing both. Killing people just for being male in a particular area - we’ve been doing that at least as far back as Fallujah - and then declaring our victims to be terrorists.
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