# Barak Obama's mother was a US citizen, so he is. What difference does it make where he was born? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 1, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494 "2012-03-01T22:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![unclesandwitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/779978/32.png) [@unclesandwitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclesandwitch)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/21 "2012-03-02T01:52:27Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Why would it matter whether she was married or not? She still hadn’t lived in the US for long enough. > > (I’m not a birther, FTR). Incorrect. That only applies to parents not born in the U.S. who become citizens and have a child. Since Obama’s mother was born in the U.S. she is automatically a citizen no matter how long she lived in the U.S. Her parents were U.S. citizens and she was born in the U.S. She is instantly a U.S. citizen at birth. Since Obama’s mother is a natural born citizen, it doesn’t matter where he was born. He is still a U.S. citizen because of his mother. Just like John McCain. Children born to a U.S. mother are U.S. citizens even if they are born on the moon. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/22 "2012-03-02T02:11:52Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Why would it matter whether she was married or not? She still hadn’t lived in the US for long enough. > > (I’m not a birther, FTR). > [@unclesandwitch](#): > > Incorrect. That only applies to parents not born in the U.S. who become citizens and have a child. > > Since Obama’s mother was born in the U.S. she is automatically a citizen no matter how long she lived in the U.S. Her parents were U.S. citizens and she was born in the U.S. She is instantly a U.S. citizen at birth. > > Since Obama’s mother is a natural born citizen, it doesn’t matter where he was born. He is still a U.S. citizen because of his mother. Just like John McCain. Children born to a U.S. mother are U.S. citizens even if they are born on the moon. The length of the time she lived in the USA was not supposed to relate to citizenship, it was supposed to relate to his eligibility for president. To quote from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Parental_citizenship), > [@](#): > > Andrew Malcolm, of the Los Angeles Times, has argued that Obama would be eligible for the presidency, because his mother was an American citizen, irrespective of where he was born, saying that Obama’s mother “could have been on Mars when wee Barry emerged and he’d still be American.” According to UCLA Law Professor Eugene Volokh, in the hypothetical scenario that Obama was born outside the U.S., he would not be a natural-born citizen since the then-applicable law would have required Obama’s mother to have been in the U.S. at least “five years after the age of 14”, but Ann Dunham was three months shy of her 19th birthday when Obama was born. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/23 "2012-03-02T02:26:11Z")
I thought Obama was born in Hawaii. That should be the end to the Birther silliness over this issue. Had they been born before 1955, they may have had something to clutch at, but he wasn’t and they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/24 "2012-03-02T03:53:36Z")
My father was born in China in the 1920’s to American missionary parents, both native-born Americans, with family trees being native-born Americans at least to the 18th century. He was apparently conceived on the voyage over. He maintained from the 1960’s (when I first asked him) until his death that he was a native-born citizen and was eligible to be elected President (he never got the chance, and I doubt he would have taken the job). Within the past ten years, he did tell me that when he turned 18 (I think it was) he had to denounce any claim to a Chinese citizenship (this was pre-communist). I think this was to be register for the WWII draft, but I am not positive about this point. My birth certificate states my mother’s birthplace as Illinois and my father’s as China. My uncle (paternal) was born in Pennsylvania, which is where my father grew up past the age of 2. I truly doubt anyone would ever had questioned his citizenship. He was no more Chinese than Lincoln. A life-long Republican (similar to Lincoln), except for the past few years when political affiliation has really become rather insane, I doubt the Birther’s would question the child of US born Christian missionaries was a “native born” citizen. If not him, then why Obama? excavating (for a mind) ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/25 "2012-03-02T04:13:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > Had they been born before 1955, they may have had something to clutch at, but he wasn’t and they don’t. 1955? Hawaii became the 50th state in 1959. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/26 "2012-03-02T04:21:59Z")
> [@unclesandwitch](#): > > Since Obama’s mother is a natural born citizen, it doesn’t matter where he was born. He is still a U.S. citizen because of his mother. Just like John McCain. Children born to a U.S. mother are U.S. citizens even if they are born on the moon. This is simply not correct. People who are U.S. citizens themselves don’t necessarily transmit U.S. citizenship to their children _if they have not lived in the U.S. for a requisite period of time._ This is to prevent indefinite transmission of U.S. citizenship to people born abroad who have never lived in the U.S. See **Alley Dweller’s** link above. > [@](#): > > A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) At the time of Obama’s birth, his mother was not yet 19. Since she had not lived in the U.S. for more than 5 years after the age of 14 (since she was not old enough to satisfy that criterion), technically she could not have transmitted her citizenship to a child that was not born in the U.S. The question of course is moot since Obama was born in the U.S. Also through a technicality, John McCain, although born of U.S. parents, did not qualify for U.S. citizenship at the time of his birth. The law was retroactively changed in order to confer U.S. citizenship on those born in McCain’s circumstances. From [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us/politics/11mccain.html) > [@](#): > > At the time of Mr. McCain’s birth, the relevant law granted citizenship to any child born to an American parent “out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States.” Professor Chin said the term “limits and jurisdiction” left a crucial gap. The Canal Zone was beyond the limits of the United States but not beyond its jurisdiction, and thus the law did not apply to Mr. McCain. > > In 1937, Congress addressed the problem, enacting a law that granted citizenship to people born in the Canal Zone after 1904. That made Mr. McCain a citizen, but not one who was naturally born, Professor Chin said, because the citizenship was conferred after his birth. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/27 "2012-03-02T04:25:09Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > 1955? > > Hawaii became the 50th state in 1959. > > ~VOW Presumably everyone born in Hawaii became a US citizen when Hawaii became a state. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/28 "2012-03-02T04:32:46Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I guessed I missed that before. Does a US embassy or a US military base count as “US soil”? AFAIK, for the purposes of the 14th Amendment, only birth in a state or an incorporated territory is birth “in the United States.” Right now (and in 1961), that means the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and Palmyra Atoll. (Palmyra Atoll was incorporated as a a part of the Hawaii Territory and later split off.) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/29 "2012-03-02T04:36:44Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Presumably everyone born in Hawaii became a US citizen when Hawaii became a state. It’s not relevant anyway; Hawaii was still American soil, even if not a state, just as Washington D.C. is part of the USA but not a state. Barry Goldwater was eligible to be President even though he was born in Arizona prior to Arizona attaining statehood. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/30 "2012-03-02T04:38:22Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > A point of interest, John McCain was born in Panama, on a US sub base. It was at the Coco Solo Naval Station in the Canal Zone. Technically the Canal Zone, although under U.S. jurisdiction (according to treaty, the U.S. had the authority to act “as if it were sovereign,” but not actual sovereignty), was never part of the United States and remained legally Panamanian soil. Birth in the Canal Zone by itself did not confer U.S. citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/31 "2012-03-02T04:40:09Z")
> [@isaiahrobinson](#): > > To become President or Vice-President under the Constitution you have to be a “natural born citizen”. The legal consensus is that to be a natural born citizen you have to have been born on US soil. That’s why it’s crucial where President Obama was born; if he was born in Hawaii, he can be president. If he was born in Kenya like the Birthers allege, he can’t. In the latter case he could still be a citizen but he couldn’t be president. What if Obama was born in Hawaii in 1941 (instead of 1961)? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/32 "2012-03-02T04:46:01Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > What if Obama was born in Hawaii in 1941 (instead of 1961)? Hawaii was an [organized incorporated territory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territory_of_Hawaii) of the United States from shortly after annexation in 1898 and thus legally part of the U.S. Anyone born there after the territorial government was established in 1900 would be a natural born citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/33 "2012-03-02T05:49:45Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > What if Obama was born in Hawaii in 1941 (instead of 1961)? People would accuse him of being a Japanese secret agent. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/34 "2012-03-02T06:35:11Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > People would accuse him of being a Japanese secret agent. Who smuggled war plans in his diapers? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/35 "2012-03-02T06:44:09Z")
Wasn’t airline passenger flight fairly uncommon back then? ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/36 "2012-03-02T06:51:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > His first name is “Barack.” He’s the freakin’ President of the United States, and has been for awhile now. Yeah, I pretty much discounted the OP for just this reason. Sure, I guess it’s not as easy to spell as “George,” but…wow. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/37 "2012-03-02T08:37:19Z")
It is my impression that US embassies have wide leeway in their decision to grant CRBA based on people’s personal experiences shared on message boards(unless you believe they’re making shit up). For instance I can find posts where someone lost all documentation of their US residency(the five year period) and after interview the requirement was waived. Which makes some people’s insistance that should baby Barack have been born abroad his mothers age would have prevented derivative transmission and what exactly? His mother must now try to immigrate to whereever her son was born so she can raise him? I have little faith in government but I do think that would be unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/38 "2012-03-02T08:48:07Z")
> [@grude](#): > > It is my impression that US embassies have wide leeway in their decision to grant CRBA based on people’s personal experiences shared on message boards(unless you believe they’re making shit up). For instance I can find posts where someone lost all documentation of their US residency(the five year period) and after interview the requirement was waived. > > Which makes some people’s insistance that should baby Barack have been born abroad his mothers age would have prevented derivative transmission and what exactly? His mother must now try to immigrate to whereever her son was born so she can raise him? I have little faith in government but I do think that would be unlikely. I doubt there was much difficulty getting US citizenship for babies born to US resident parents who happened to be out of the country and too young to automatically pass on citizenship. But then those babies would not have been “natural born” citizens. _That_ is the issue, not citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/39 "2012-03-02T09:20:18Z")
I’m afraid it’s all up for Obama. [Sheriff Joe](http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/sheriff-joes-posse-probable-cause-obama-certificate-a-fraud/) is acomin’ for him. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/40 "2012-03-02T17:51:59Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Under the law at the time, a citizen had to be a resident for the US a certain amount of time before his/her foreign born children would get automatic citizenships. The purpose of the law was to prevent people from getting citizenship simply from having a citizen ancestor despite the fact that they or their parents had never been in the US… This makes sense. If I was automatically considered a citizen of every country from which I had any ancestry, I would easily have 4 or 5 citizenships just based on my _known_ ancestry. Would it really make sense for, say, Germany to say that because most white people in the US have some German ancestry that they are ALL German Citizens? It doesn’t make practical sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494.md?page=3)