# Barak Obama's mother was a US citizen, so he is. What difference does it make where he was born? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 1, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494 "2012-03-01T22:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rich\_G7subs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rich\_G7subs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_G7subs)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/41 "2012-03-02T18:57:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > His first name is “Barack.” He’s the freakin’ President of the United States, and has been for awhile now. and hopefully not for much longer! ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/42 "2012-03-02T19:34:52Z")
> [@unclesandwitch](#): > > Children born to a U.S. mother are U.S. citizens even if they are born on the moon. The US State Department disagrees, and insisted that I prove that I met the residency requirement before they would issue my sons their Consular Reports of Birth Abroad and their US passports. The residency requirement is the only thing the birthers have correct about this whole issue, but they do have it right. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/43 "2012-03-02T19:45:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > His first name is “Barack.” He’s the freakin’ President of the United States, and has been for awhile now. We’ve been at war with al Qaida for longer than Obama’s been around, but people on this very board still spell it with a u. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/44 "2012-03-02T19:53:58Z")
> [@Rich\_G7subs](#): > > and hopefully not for much longer! [Moderator Note] **Rich G7subs** , political potshots like this are not permitted in General Questions. No warning issued, but don’t do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/45 "2012-03-02T21:04:12Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Why would it matter whether she was married or not? She still hadn’t lived in the US for long enough. > > (I’m not a birther, FTR). Because the law cited in regards to the time issue refers to when the parents are married. If the parents are unmarried, the applicable law has no time requirement and the child is automatically given the citizenship of the mother. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/46 "2012-03-02T21:58:03Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Because the law cited in regards to the time issue refers to when the parents are married. If the parents are unmarried, the applicable law has no time requirement and the child is automatically given the citizenship of the mother. Correct. From **Alley Dweller’s** link: > [@](#): > > Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Mother: > > A person born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 309(c) of the INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the person’s birth and if the mother was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the person’s birth. The mother must be genetically related to the person in order to transmit U.S. citizenship. Barack Obama Senior was married to Kezia Aoko in a tribal ceremony in Kenya in 1954. If this marriage is considered valid, then his marriage to Stanley Ann Dunham in 1961 was bigamous and presumably invalid. So this provision would apply, and Dunham’s son would be a citizen no matter where he was born. In the case of McCain, ironically his citizenship status would actually be clearer if he had been born in Panama outside the Canal Zone. Because he would have been born outside U.S. jurisdiction, he would have been a citizen at the time he was born, rather than becoming one retroactively the year after his birth. Some that believe that McCain’s birth in the Canal Zone is what gives him U.S. citizenship have made an issue of the fact that McCain, born in 1936, has said that he was born in Coco Solo Hospital, which wasn’t built until 1941. The allegation is made that McCain might have been born in the nearest hospital in Panama, in the city of Colon. But there was an earlier smaller Coco Solo Hospital on the base before the current one was built, and there is no doubt he was born there. But that circumstance makes his natural born status more questionable than birth in Colon would have. ---
**Author:** ![unclesandwitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/779978/32.png) [@unclesandwitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclesandwitch)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/47 "2012-03-03T08:43:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > This is simply not correct. People who are U.S. citizens themselves don’t necessarily transmit U.S. citizenship to their children _if they have not lived in the U.S. for a requisite period of time._ This is to prevent indefinite transmission of U.S. citizenship to people born abroad who have never lived in the U.S. See **Alley Dweller’s** link above. > > At the time of Obama’s birth, his mother was not yet 19. Since she had not lived in the U.S. for more than 5 years after the age of 14 (since she was not old enough to satisfy that criterion), technically she could not have transmitted her citizenship to a child that was not born in the U.S. The question of course is moot since Obama was born in the U.S. > Also through a technicality, John McCain, although born of U.S. parents, did not qualify for U.S. citizenship at the time of his birth. The law was retroactively changed in order to confer U.S. citizenship on those born in McCain’s circumstances. > > From [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us/politics/11mccain.html) You guys can quote Wikipedia all you want. If you mother is a U.S. citizen and you were born abroad you are still a U.S. citizen no matter how old the mother is. You are confusing the law with people trying to get a green card. If the mother was NOT BORN in the U.S. they have to live in the U.S. for a time period before allowing their child citizenship. Since Obama’s mother was born in Kansas she was automatically a citizen and so is he. So if the birthers are trying to say he was born in Kenya then he would still be a U.S. citizen because his mom is. Even though he was born in Hawaii. [http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD](http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD) **At least one parent is a U.S. citizen** or, if deceased, the parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of death. The second clause is for parents NOT BORN in the U.S. who are U.S. citizens. The U.S. citizen parent or his or her U.S. citizen parent has (or at the time of death had) been physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for at least 5 years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of 14. His mother was a U.S. citizen AT BIRTH. She doesn’t need to live in the U.S. for 5 years 2 of which are after the age of 14 because she was born in the U.S. That is the difference. ---
**Author:** ![unclesandwitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/779978/32.png) [@unclesandwitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclesandwitch)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/48 "2012-03-03T08:46:00Z")
Here’s a Shopes explaination: > **[Is Barack Obama a natural-born citizen of the U.S.?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/native-son/)** > > Is Barack Obama a natural-born citizen of the U.S.? ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/49 "2012-03-03T09:44:18Z")
> [@unclesandwitch](#): > > You guys can quote Wikipedia all you want. If you mother is a U.S. citizen and you were born abroad you are still a U.S. citizen no matter how old the mother is. You are confusing the law with people trying to get a green card. If the mother was NOT BORN in the U.S. they have to live in the U.S. for a time period before allowing their child citizenship. Cite please? > [@](#): > > [http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD](http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD) > > **At least one parent is a U.S. citizen** or, if deceased, the parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of death. Did you read the first line of the web page you linked to? It says: > [@](#): > > Biological or adopted children who regularly reside outside of the United States may qualify for naturalization under section 322 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), as amended by the Child Citizenship Act (CCA). In general, to be eligible for citizenship under section 322 of the INA, a child must meet the following requirements: This web page explains how a child “may qualify for naturalization.” “Naturalization” is the process by which a person who is not already a citizen may obtain citizenship. A person who is already a citizen does not need to qualify for naturalization because they are already a citizen. The page you link to has no relevance to the question of who is a citizen at birth. And almost everyone would agree that someone who needed to undergo “naturalization” is not a natural-born citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/50 "2012-03-03T09:48:27Z")
> [@unclesandwitch](#): > > Here’s a Shopes explaination: > > [Is Barack Obama a Natural-Born Citizen of the U.S.? | Snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp) Executive summary of the snopes explanation: He was born in Hawaii which was a US state at the time, so the status of his parents (unless they were foreign diplomats) doesn’t matter. It does not address the theoretical question of what his status would have been if he had been born in Kenya. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/51 "2012-03-03T10:11:05Z")
> [@unclesandwitch](#): > > [http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD](http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD) > > **At least one parent is a U.S. citizen** or, if deceased, the parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of death. > > The second clause is for parents NOT BORN in the U.S. who are U.S. citizens. Where does it say that? What it does say: > [@](#): > > In general, to be eligible for citizenship under section 322 of the INA, a child must meet the following requirements: The child must meet the following requirements. Not at least one of the following requirements. The child must meet them all. I’ve been through this. I’m an American citizen, born in Pennsylvania, lived there until I was 21. My two sons were born in Norway. They did indeed obtain US citizenship at birth, but to prove their eligibility, I had to fill out paperwork showing when I resided in the US. Flashing my passport was not enough. If their father had also been a US citizen, we would have needed to prove that at least one of us had had a residence in the US before the boys were born. (He is, however, a Norwegian citizen. And as a result, our boys are, too. In that case, flashing my husband’s passport was indeed sufficient.) I am not a birther, because all the evidence points to Barack Obama having been born in Hawaii, just as he has always said. However, I will say again that the one single thing they have right is that **IF** for some bizarre reason he had been born outside of the US, he would not automatically have had the right to American citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/52 "2012-03-03T11:28:04Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Because the law cited in regards to the time issue refers to when the parents are married. If the parents are unmarried, the applicable law has no time requirement and the child is automatically given the citizenship of the mother. Ah, OK, and TY Colibri for the cite. It still depends then on whether, in this theoretical scenario, Stanley just went abroad and gave birth to Barack or stayed abroad for a while then had him. And of course it depends on Obama senior’s father really being bigamous. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/53 "2012-03-03T23:08:26Z")
> [@unclesandwitch](#): > > You guys can quote Wikipedia all you want. If you mother is a U.S. citizen and you were born abroad you are still a U.S. citizen no matter how old the mother is. You are confusing the law with people trying to get a green card. If the mother was NOT BORN in the U.S. they have to live in the U.S. for a time period before allowing their child citizenship. Since Obama’s mother was born in Kansas she was automatically a citizen and so is he. Try reading the actual cites. We are not quoting Wikipedia, we are quoting **THE BUREAU OF CONSULAR AFFAIRS OF THE US DEPARTMENT OF STATE.** We are not confusing anything. You are simply wrong. Obama’s mother was a US citizen. However, citizens are NOT automatically able to pass on their citizenship. If they have not satisfied residency requirements in the US, then they cannot. Obama’s mother had not satisfied residency requirements, even though she had lived in the US her whole life, because she was not old enough according to the law at the time. I have quoted the relevant information above. > [@](#): > > So if the birthers are trying to say he was born in Kenya then he would still be a U.S. citizen because his mom is. Even though he was born in Hawaii. If he were born in Kenya, and his parents marriage were considered valid, then Obama would not be a citizen. If their marriage was considered invalid due to his father’s bigamy, then he would be. > [@](#): > > [http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD](http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8554a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD) > > **At least one parent is a U.S. citizen** or, if deceased, the parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of death. > > The second clause is for parents NOT BORN in the U.S. who are U.S. citizens. > > The U.S. citizen parent or his or her U.S. citizen parent has (or at the time of death had) been physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for at least 5 years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of 14. What you quote refers to eligibility for naturalization, _not whether a child is a citizen from birth,_ which is the issue at hand. In any case, the last paragraph in the quote above refers to the law as it is currently, not at the time of Obama’s birth. The law has been changed. > [@](#): > > His mother was a U.S. citizen AT BIRTH. She doesn’t need to live in the U.S. for 5 years 2 of which are after the age of 14 because she was born in the U.S. > > That is the difference. You really seem to be missing the point here. The issue is not whether Obama’s mother was a citizen - she was - but whether she could pass on her citizenship to him. And as has been repeatedly explained in this thread, there are circumstances when the child of a US citizen does not qualify for citizenship themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/54 "2012-03-03T23:12:39Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > I am not a birther, because all the evidence points to Barack Obama having been born in Hawaii, just as he has always said. However, I will say again that the one single thing they have right is that **IF** for some bizarre reason he had been born outside of the US, he would not automatically have had the right to American citizenship. While this is true, I suspect that most birthers don’t actually understand the technicalities of the argument. They simply think that birth overseas would make Obama not a natural born citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/55 "2012-03-03T23:40:22Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > What if Obama was born in Hawaii in 1941 (instead of 1961)? Well, at that time his mother was still in his grandmother’s womb. Making him quite the miraculous baby. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/56 "2012-03-03T23:58:05Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Obama’s mother was a US citizen. However, citizens are NOT automatically able to pass on their citizenship. If they have not satisfied residency requirements in the US, then they cannot. HOWEVER, if a mother is unmarried in 1961, under the laws at that time, she does pass on her citizenship automatically. I have a copy of the law in effect at that time in one of my posts in another birther thread but I can’t find it right now. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/57 "2012-03-04T02:04:38Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > HOWEVER, if a mother is unmarried in 1961, under the laws at that time, she does pass on her citizenship automatically. I have a copy of the law in effect at that time in one of my posts in another birther thread but I can’t find it right now. That would seem to be essentially the same as the out-of-wedlock situation I cited in post #46, although I was quoting the current law. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494/58 "2012-03-06T16:54:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That would seem to be essentially the same as the out-of-wedlock situation I cited in post #46, although I was quoting the current law. Under the law in 1961, there was not even the year time limit. I wish I could re-find that 1961 statute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barak-obamas-mother-was-a-us-citizen-so-he-is-what-difference-does-it-make-where-he-was-born/614494.md?page=2)