# Bare live wire in the dirt **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 17, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087 "2019-05-17T00:20:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/1 "2019-05-17T00:20:43Z")
I have been puzzled by my much higher than average electricity bill for years. Today I found a live wire coming from under my house and buried under the surface of the dirt, Most likely an out door lighting wire from more than 40 years ago. The wire was 2- 14 gauge copper in a romax. The ends were stripped back about 1" and the wires were less than 1/8" apart. Could this have been draining electricity when the ground was damp? I will know at the next billing cycle but just curious. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/2 "2019-05-17T00:49:32Z")
I don’t think so; if the wire was live, it would trip a breaker somewhere, and if you turned the breaker back on, it would just trip again _ad nauseam._ ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/3 "2019-05-17T01:00:37Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I have been puzzled by my much higher than average electricity bill for years. Today I found a live wire coming from under my house and buried under the surface of the dirt, Most likely an out door lighting wire from more than 40 years ago. The wire was 2- 14 gauge copper in a romax. The ends were stripped back about 1" and the wires were less than 1/8" apart. Could this have been draining electricity when the ground was damp? I will know at the next billing cycle but just curious. Yes it is possible. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/4 "2019-05-17T01:41:10Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I don’t think so; if the wire was live, it would trip a breaker somewhere, and if you turned the breaker back on, it would just trip again _ad nauseam._ The wire was live enough to give me a good jolt when I wasn’t expecting it. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/5 "2019-05-17T01:41:49Z")
Another “yes its possible”, but it would be pretty unlikely for this live wire to be accidently left in a place with soil and moisture conditions just right to allow for the proper amount of current to flow without tripping a breaker and to remain in that state as corrosion and changing soil conditions and water freezing and thawing over the years occurred. Has your bill has been higher because of abnormal consumption (which you can check by looking at your actual power usage shown on the bills), or because of weird high service charges based on your location or contract? I used to own a rural property with electric service running 1/4 mile from the distribution line. I actually used less than $1 worth of KWh per year (it was a place I intended to fix up so ran the lights and a vacuum now and then but that’s it) but I paid $118 a month in service charges just to maintain the numerous poles and line/equipment. ---
**Author:** ![KMS94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ad7895/32.png) [@KMS94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KMS94)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/6 "2019-05-17T02:03:43Z")
n/m ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/7 "2019-05-17T02:11:24Z")
> [@mmmiiikkkeee](#): > > Another “yes its possible”, but it would be pretty unlikely for this live wire to be accidently left in a place with soil and moisture conditions just right to allow for the proper amount of current to flow without tripping a breaker and to remain in that state as corrosion and changing soil conditions and water freezing and thawing over the years occurred. > > Has your bill has been higher because of abnormal consumption (which you can check by looking at your actual power usage shown on the bills), or because of weird high service charges based on your location or contract? I used to own a rural property with electric service running 1/4 mile from the distribution line. I actually used less than $1 worth of KWh per year (it was a place I intended to fix up so ran the lights and a vacuum now and then but that’s it) but I paid $118 a month in service charges just to maintain the numerous poles and line/equipment. I need to get a copy of the bill and check it out. I just know for the past several years I have been paying close to $200.00 a month for a family of 4 with no a/c and the heat is seldom used. We live in Los Angeles. The soil here is normally pretty dry but this is on the shady side of the house so tends to stay slightly damp. Last month my son his family and myself were gone most of the month and my bill was still over $100.00. I am hoping this makes a difference. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/8 "2019-05-17T05:26:36Z")
What part of LA do you live in that you don’t need AC, but simultaneously don’t need heat? And how much are homes there? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/9 "2019-05-17T11:21:19Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > What part of LA do you live in that you don’t need AC, but simultaneously don’t need heat? And how much are homes there? We use the heater some but not much. I live about 15 miles south of downtown Los Angeles about 5 miles off the coast. Not much A/C is used within 10 miles of the coast. 1100 sq ft homes run from a low of about 500,000 up to over a million depending on the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/10 "2019-05-17T11:30:00Z")
It would have been interesting if HoneyBadgerDC had placed an amp-clamp on that sucker before he disconnected it, just to see how much power was going astray. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/11 "2019-05-17T15:00:35Z")
> [@mmmiiikkkeee](#): > > Another “yes its possible”, but it would be pretty unlikely for this live wire to be accidently left in a place with soil and moisture conditions just right to allow for the proper amount of current to flow without tripping a breaker and to remain in that state as corrosion and changing soil conditions and water freezing and thawing over the years occurred. It’s doubtful the resistance of the soil between the hot and neutral wires (or hot and ground wires) would be low enough to trip a standard circuit breaker. A GFCI breaker, OTOH, should trip immediately. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/12 "2019-05-17T15:19:50Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > It would have been interesting if HoneyBadgerDC had placed an amp-clamp on that sucker before he disconnected it, just to see how much power was going astray. I started to do that and now wish I would have. I was thinking it was like this since before I bought the home but thinking back about 30 years ago I had sprinklers put in and the wire is cut very close to where the sprinklers line was run. I can’t find a switch anywhere so I am thinking the switch may have been outside and removed when the landscaping was done. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/13 "2019-05-17T16:05:50Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I started to do that and now wish I would have. I was thinking it was like this since before I bought the home but thinking back about 30 years ago I had sprinklers put in and the wire is cut very close to where the sprinklers line was run. I can’t find a switch anywhere so I am thinking the switch may have been outside and removed when the landscaping was done. I knew a guy who bought a house and moved in during the summer. His electric bill was way more than the sellers documented use. Month after month he got ridiculous bills. He eventually hired an electrician who figured out that the _electrical sidewalk_ (for melting snow and ice) had been on the whole time. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/14 "2019-05-17T16:11:03Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I need to get a copy of the bill and check it out. I just know for the past several years I have been paying close to $200.00 a month for a family of 4 with no a/c and the heat is seldom used. We live in Los Angeles. The soil here is normally pretty dry but this is on the shady side of the house so tends to stay slightly damp. Last month my son his family and myself were gone most of the month and my bill was still over $100.00. I am hoping this makes a difference. My sister lives in a one-bedroom in Ventura County. Electric bills of that size are not unknown to her. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/15 "2019-05-17T16:42:46Z")
Hm. I’m in West Hollywood and we definitely need AC in the summer and heat in the winter, more so the AC. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/16 "2019-05-17T18:41:50Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I need to get a copy of the bill and check it out. I just know for the past several years I have been paying close to $200.00 a month for a family of 4 with no a/c and the heat is seldom used. That’s a pretty high electric bill but it’s not crazy high. Electricity in SoCal is expensive. I’m in Southern California as well with a family of four, also a few miles from the beach, and our bill is generally around $80. Note that because electricity charges do not scale linearly with usage, you are probably using about 50% more than we are. Differences like electric vs. gas appliances or just less efficient lighting that’s on more often could easily make that difference. We use about 13kWH a day, if you want to compare to your usage. Electric drain is usually not that hard to investigate. Make a list of all the things in your house that use electricity. Turn off everything that can be turned off. Go look at the meter. If it’s still spinning, that’s how much electricity everything that wasn’t turned off is using. There shouldn’t be much. If it’s a pain to get the fridge unplugged, try to wait until it’s not cycled on to look at the meter. You can then cycle through the breakers to see which circuit it’s on. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/17 "2019-05-17T19:50:44Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > It’s doubtful the resistance of the soil between the hot and neutral wires (or hot and ground wires) would be low enough to trip a standard circuit breaker. A GFCI breaker, OTOH, should trip immediately. Wouldn’t it be a direct short to ground? I mean, the dirt is “ground” isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/18 "2019-05-17T21:23:20Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Wouldn’t it be a direct short to ground? I mean, the dirt is “ground” isn’t it? Yes, but I wouldn’t call it a direct short. Soil over a small surface area doesn’t conduct all that well. Similar to what **Crafter\_Man** said upthread, I can picture getting some current to flow, probably a fairly tiny amount when dry, a bit more when wet, but I seriously doubt you’d get enough current flowing to trip the breaker under most circumstances. There’s just not enough surface area there to get a good connection through dirt. I don’t know if you’d get enough current, even when wet, to have a significant impact on your electric bill. If the bare wires are close enough, it’s definitely possible. Anyway, to get a proper “ground” connection you need more than just a tiny bit of metal in contact with soil. The generally accepted way to do this these days is to literally drive a copper rod into the ground. Exactly how big that copper rod needs to be depends on your exact soil conditions, which varies quite a bit in different parts of the country. We have come up with some standard sizes that work well for most areas. Back in the early days of electricity, there were even some electrical power systems that only ran one wire out and used the earth as the return (hey, saves you half of your wiring, and miles of copper wire ain’t cheap). This worked well in some areas and poorly in others, and often varied depending on rainfall. That unreliability is why we don’t do that these days (plus safety issues). In fact, in some areas of the country, especially the desert areas in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, etc, they often found simple copper rods to be inadequate. Back in the 1940s, a guy named Ufer figured out that they could run metal through concrete and use the conductivity of both the metal and concrete to make a better earth ground connection. While Ufer had a very specific method of doing this, the general technique of using concrete to augment your earth grounding system is generically referred to as an “Ufer ground” system. > **[Ufer ground](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ufer_ground)** > > The Ufer ground is an electrical earth grounding method developed during World War II. It uses a concrete-encased electrode to improve grounding in dry areas. The technique is used in construction of concrete foundations. > During World War II, the U.S. Army required a grounding system for bomb storage vaults near Tucson and Flagstaff, Arizona. Conventional grounding systems did not work well in this location since the desert terrain had no water table and very little rainfall. The extremely dr... While copper rods work for most of the U.S., some areas actually require better grounding systems like Ufer grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/19 "2019-05-17T23:41:12Z")
If you have a problem someplace that consumes enough electrical energy to make your bill noticeably high, then it is also dissipating enough heat to be noticeable. Rent or borrow a thermal infrared camera and go hunting for a bright spot someplace you shouldn’t have one. That much energy is hard to hide in a residence. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087/20 "2019-05-18T03:31:08Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Yes, but I wouldn’t call it a direct short. Soil over a small surface area doesn’t conduct all that well. Similar to what **Crafter\_Man** said upthread, I can picture getting some current to flow, probably a fairly tiny amount when dry, a bit more when wet, but I seriously doubt you’d get enough current flowing to trip the breaker under most circumstances. There’s just not enough surface area there to get a good connection through dirt. > > I don’t know if you’d get enough current, even when wet, to have a significant impact on your electric bill. If the bare wires are close enough, it’s definitely possible. > > Anyway, to get a proper “ground” connection you need more than just a tiny bit of metal in contact with soil. The generally accepted way to do this these days is to literally drive a copper rod into the ground. Exactly how big that copper rod needs to be depends on your exact soil conditions, which varies quite a bit in different parts of the country. We have come up with some standard sizes that work well for most areas. > Back in the early days of electricity, there were even some electrical power systems that only ran one wire out and used the earth as the return (hey, saves you half of your wiring, and miles of copper wire ain’t cheap). This worked well in some areas and poorly in others, and often varied depending on rainfall. That unreliability is why we don’t do that these days (plus safety issues). > > In fact, in some areas of the country, especially the desert areas in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, etc, they often found simple copper rods to be inadequate. Back in the 1940s, a guy named Ufer figured out that they could run metal through concrete and use the conductivity of both the metal and concrete to make a better earth ground connection. While Ufer had a very specific method of doing this, the general technique of using concrete to augment your earth grounding system is generically referred to as an “Ufer ground” system. > > [Ufer ground - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ufer_ground) > > While copper rods work for most of the U.S., some areas actually require better grounding systems like Ufer grounds. I didn’t realize concrete was conductive, There was a piece of concrete covering the wire which also increased the surface moisture at that spot. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bare-live-wire-in-the-dirt/834087.md?page=2)