# Barefoot running? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 24, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888 "2010-07-24T22:31:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/21 "2010-07-26T05:28:42Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > No idea. Never had a broken limb. The arm is significantly weaker and the muscle has visibly atrophied after just a few weeks in a cast. Now apply that to fancy cushy running shoes that envelope your feet in a sort of cast. The heel of the only $100+ pair of running shoes I have left is about twice as wide as my actual heel, seems to be almost an inch thick, and is completely immobile. It’s absurd. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But I’ve heard people say that flip flops are terrible for your feet. I’ll see if I can find a cite… > > Ah. Here’s one: > > [Flip-Flops Can Cause Long-Term Health Problems - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Springtime/story?id=5013448&page=1) They’re talking about issues resulting from altering your gait so the flip flops don’t fall off. Completely different subject. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/22 "2010-07-26T13:04:31Z")
I have a pair of vibrams. I like running in them, although occasionally I’ll run in my nike’s or something. I could go either way, as I do find that the longer distances make my feet sore as anything in the vibrams (also it does take a long while to get used to them). That said, I find them absolutely invaluable in my weight training. Particularly squats and deadlifts. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/23 "2010-07-26T14:35:16Z")
[quote=“DSeid, post:15, topic:547888”] > [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Like I said, the logic makes sense to me: minimalist shoes, for brief periods at first then building up, would help convert an over-striding plodding heavy heel striker into someone with a lighter more gliding short stride midfoot gait. But boy, I’d love to know the real data that backs it up. Just because something makes sense and some have done well with it doesn’t make it true. And when I see sites like ChiRunning and boards devoted to barefoot running I start to wonder how much is real and how much is fad. I don’t think there is any data and plenty of it is faddish. But it’s self-evident - go out on the sidewalk barefoot and run. It will be impossible for you to heel-strike, it’s very painful without some sort of padding. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/24 "2010-07-26T15:54:25Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > They’re talking about issues resulting from altering your gait so the flip flops don’t fall off. Completely different subject. So in theory if one’s gait were fine, one would be okay in shoes that don’t have a lot of support? Cool. I think I’ll stick with the support, though. When I’m running, I feel kind of sore if I don’t have it. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/25 "2010-07-26T15:57:00Z")
Anything that works muscle groups that don’t get a lot of use with cause soreness. It’s not a given that you should avoid the activities that cause soreness in that case. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/26 "2010-07-26T16:03:00Z")
Well, I don’t really have any shoes that don’t have support now. Plus I can’t run as fast/far when I don’t have enough support. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/27 "2010-07-26T17:10:55Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > … it’s self-evident - go out on the sidewalk barefoot and run. It will be impossible for you to heel-strike, it’s very painful without some sort of padding. That much I accept. The open question is if heel-strike is as much of a something I should try to change from as I am currently being encouraged to think it is. And if it is, if all of us who are heel-strikes _can_, even with minimalist shoes, learn an \*efficient \*, and non-painful, mid-foot strike/stride. Playing the other side - 1. We did evolve in concrete jungles. Running 10 plus miles on hard surfaces is not something that our feet were evolved to do. Is recreating the give of a dirt trail within your shoe all that odd of a thing to do? 2. Humankind did create footwear fairly early on … The bottom line is, I think, as **Cisco** put it … I’ll give it a try for some short runs for a while and see if I can learn a different stride and how it feels if I do. If nothing else I can just think of it as more variety in my excercise mix, and I am a big believer in that. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/28 "2010-07-26T17:21:14Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > 1. We did evolve in concrete jungles. Running 10 plus miles on hard surfaces is not something that our feet were evolved to do. That’s debatable. I’ve never been to africa, but I live in a desert, and the dirt here is as hard as concrete in a lot of places. The rocks are harder. > [@DSeid](#): > > Is recreating the give of a dirt trail within your shoe all that odd of a thing to do? That is not even close to what running shoes do. You’ve asked a lot of questions that are addressed in the article I linked to, but you never answered me when I asked if you read it. > [@DSeid](#): > > 1. Humankind did create footwear fairly early on … For protection (from sharp rocks, thorns, ants, etc.) Not cushioning or “support.” ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/29 "2010-07-26T17:22:41Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > To answer **Cisco** : You may be one of the few who can run “barefoot”. I’ve never met one in these 34 years. As far as Aurthur Newton is concerned, in those days there were no “real” running shoes and only those who had near perfect feet survived to be runners. > > I tried barefoot early in my running days and it was a disaster, lost months of training. I pronate too much to even try to do without. > > I do believe that the reason we have so many runners is that modern shoes allow the less than perfect feet to survive the sport. Not trying to start a fight, but… How would you have survived on the Savannah when you needed to chase down an antelope? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/30 "2010-07-26T18:00:10Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > You’ve asked a lot of questions that are addressed in the article I linked to, but you never answered me when I asked if you read it. Yes, I read it, and saw a fair amount of opinions but little in the way of convincing data. Things like this > [@](#): > > ‘Until 1972, when the modern athletic shoe was invented, people ran in very thin-soled shoes, had strong feet and had a much lower incidence of knee injuries.’ are not all that convincing as it is also true that before the 70’s very few average athletes in the Western world ran long distances regularly; recreational distance running really didn’t take off until the late 70s. And that’s where **RunnerPat** ’s point _may_ be cogent: was it cushioned shoes that caused the injuries, or that cushioned shoes grew with the popularity of distance running and that the miles that those shoes allow people to run is what causes the injuries. One point I’ve read somewhere on line is that barefoot runners tend to run fewer miles and that it may be that fact that decreases the injury rate. But that also seemed like idle speculation, not data based. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/31 "2010-07-26T18:29:50Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > This jumped out at me: > > > [@](#): > > > > occasionally, we hear from someone who tried and failed and wishes they’d never discovered barefoot running. I maintain that this latter group is in the minority It’s pretty clear that the author misspoke and meant “majority” and not “minority” when you don’t clip off the rest of the sentence. > [@](#): > > But occasionally, we hear from someone who tried and failed and wishes they’d never discovered barefoot running. I maintain that this latter group is in the minority - most people who try it out, fail, and get injured, will go back to shoes and keep running, sometimes injured, sometimes well. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/32 "2010-07-26T18:41:18Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > > [@Cisco](#): > > > > This jumped out at me: > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > occasionally, we hear from someone who tried and failed and wishes they’d never discovered barefoot running. I maintain that this latter group is in the minority > > It’s pretty clear that the author misspoke and meant “majority” and not “minority” when you don’t clip off the rest of the sentence. > > > [@](#): > > > > But occasionally, we hear from someone who tried and failed and wishes they’d never discovered barefoot running. I maintain that this latter group is in the minority - most people who try it out, fail, and get injured, will go back to shoes and keep running, sometimes injured, sometimes well. No, that’s not clear at all. Don’t blame your misunderstanding the sentence on an editing mistake. Go back and read it again. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/33 "2010-07-26T18:41:33Z")
> [@Spit](#): > > Not trying to start a fight, but… > > How would you have survived on the Savannah when you needed to chase down an antelope? Don’t assume whatever our ancestors had endure meant the fashion in which they did so is best because they must have evolved to have bodies that were ideal for dealing with those situations. If I had to chase down an antelope on the Savannah, I’d certainly want footwear, sunscreen, eye glasses if I needed them, etc. **runner pat** would have chased it down barefoot if he had to. His feet, shins, etc. may have hurt, but he’d have a better chance of survival than if he refused to run sans footwear. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/34 "2010-07-26T18:46:25Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > No, that’s not clear at all. Don’t blame your misunderstanding the sentence on an editing mistake. Go back and read it again. :rolleyes: I didn’t blame any misunderstanding on an editing mistake. Why do you want me to read it again? I pointed out why it’s a mistake by quoting the sentence in full. It’s also clear what the author’s opinion is on barefoot running. Instead of telling me to read it again, point out the part you think is relevant that makes it evident that I’m wrong. You wrote out that that part of the sentence jumped out at you. Why? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/35 "2010-07-26T18:48:11Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > > [@Spit](#): > > > > Not trying to start a fight, but… > > > > How would you have survived on the Savannah when you needed to chase down an antelope? > > Don’t assume whatever our ancestors had endure meant the fashion in which they did so is best because they must have evolved to have bodies that were ideal for dealing with those situations. If I had to chase down an antelope on the Savannah, I’d certainly want footwear, sunscreen, eye glasses if I needed them, etc. > > **runner pat** would have chased it down barefoot if he had to. His feet, shins, etc. may have hurt, but he’d have a better chance of survival than if he refused to run sans footwear. Dirt, sand, grass and such is far softer that concrete and asphalt. I never meant that barefoot running is not possible on natural surfaces. ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/36 "2010-07-26T18:51:25Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > > [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > > > > [@Spit](#): > > > > > > Not trying to start a fight, but… > > > > > > How would you have survived on the Savannah when you needed to chase down an antelope? > > > > Don’t assume whatever our ancestors had endure meant the fashion in which they did so is best because they must have evolved to have bodies that were ideal for dealing with those situations. If I had to chase down an antelope on the Savannah, I’d certainly want footwear, sunscreen, eye glasses if I needed them, etc. > > > > **runner pat** would have chased it down barefoot if he had to. His feet, shins, etc. may have hurt, but he’d have a better chance of survival than if he refused to run sans footwear. > > Dirt, sand, grass and such is far softer that concrete and asphalt. I never meant that barefoot running is not possible on natural surfaces. Excellent points, both of you. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/37 "2010-07-26T18:52:57Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Dirt, sand, grass and such is far softer that concrete and asphalt. I never meant that barefoot running is not possible on natural surfaces. I didn’t say you said it’s not possible on natural surfaces. I said I would want to wear footwear if chasing an antelope on the Savannah and that you would run barefoot if you had to. Maybe you’d choose to run barefoot on the Savannah, but when chasing an animal through tall grass and brush, I’d bet you’d be better off protecting the soles and even sides of your feet from whatever you may step on. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/38 "2010-07-26T18:56:08Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > > [@Cisco](#): > > > > No, that’s not clear at all. Don’t blame your misunderstanding the sentence on an editing mistake. Go back and read it again. > > :rolleyes: I didn’t blame any misunderstanding on an editing mistake. Why do you want me to read it again? I pointed out why it’s a mistake by quoting the sentence in full. It’s also clear what the author’s opinion is on barefoot running. Instead of telling me to read it again, point out the part you think is relevant that makes it evident that I’m wrong. > > You wrote out that that part of the sentence jumped out at you. Why? Don’t roll your eyes at me because you’re not comprehending the passage. Just read it again. Since you want to look at it in context, let’s look at it in its entire context: > [@](#): > > We’ve heard many testimonies about people who have switched to barefoot or minimalist shoes with great success. Well done, and good for you! If it has solved your injury problems, or opened up a world of running to YOU, then long may it continue! > > But occasionally, we hear from someone who tried and failed and wishes they’d never discovered barefoot running. I maintain that this latter group is in the minority - most people who try it out, fail, and get injured, will go back to shoes and keep running, sometimes injured, sometimes well. Now he’s talking about two groups: -The former, who “have switched to barefoot or minimalist shoes with great success” -The latter, who “tried and failed and wishes they’d never discovered barefoot running.” He then maintains that the “latter group is in the minority.” Everything after the dash - “most people who try it out and fail” - is describing this minority. And the only thing clear about the author’s opinion is that it isn’t cemented either way. It’s a fairly neutral analysis that concludes you should do what works best for you as an individual-- pretty damn close to what I’ve been saying. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/39 "2010-07-26T19:08:57Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Don’t roll your eyes at me because you’re not comprehending the passage. I rolled my eyes because you claimed I was blaming someone for a bullshit reason. And I’ll roll my eyes at whomever I please. (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > -The former, who “have switched to barefoot or minimalist shoes with great success” > > -The latter, who “tried and failed and wishes they’d never discovered barefoot running.” > > He then maintains that the “latter group is in the minority.” Everything after the dash - “ **most people who try it out and fail** ” - is describing this minority. Nice try. :rolleyes: He doesn’t say “most people who try it out and fail” and it wouldn’t make sense in the context of the sentence if he did. Hmm, I wonder why you didn’t copy and paste what he wrote and instead misquoted him? He said (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > **most people who try it out, fail** , and get injured, will go back to shoes and keep running, sometimes injured, sometimes well. So no, he doesn’t say the latter group is in the minority; he’s says they’re in the majority. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888/40 "2010-07-26T19:14:30Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > > [@Cisco](#): > > > > Don’t roll your eyes at me because you’re not comprehending the passage. > > I rolled my eyes because you claimed I was blaming someone for a bullshit reason. And I’ll roll my eyes at whomever I please. > (bolding mine) > > > [@](#): > > > > -The former, who “have switched to barefoot or minimalist shoes with great success” > > > > -The latter, who “tried and failed and wishes they’d never discovered barefoot running.” > > > > He then maintains that the “latter group is in the minority.” Everything after the dash - “ **most people who try it out and fail** ” - is describing this minority. > > Nice try. :rolleyes: He doesn’t say “most people who try it out and fail” and it wouldn’t make sense in the context of the sentence if he did. Hmm, I wonder why you didn’t copy and paste what he wrote and instead misquoted him? He said (bolding mine): > > > [@](#): > > > > **most people who try it out, fail** , and get injured, will go back to shoes and keep running, sometimes injured, sometimes well. > > So no, he doesn’t say the latter group is in the minority; he’s says they’re in the majority. Oh Jesus, you’re delusional. The sentence reads the same way without the “and.” I didn’t notice when I typed it out because it’s irrelevant, and I typed it instead of copy/pasting because it’s 8 words and it’s faster to type that than copy/paste. I can’t believe you’re seriously fighting this. I’ve never heard someone here make an argument (much less such a passionate one) that rests solely on a hypothetical typo that means exactly the opposite of what it says. This is ridiculous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barefoot-running/547888.md?page=3)