# Barnes & Noble changes and the future of bookstores **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [July 29, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789 "2023-07-29T12:40:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/61 "2023-07-29T23:52:36Z")
> [@Eric1](#): > > One of my classmates is a bookstore manager. He’s said it’s hard to muster enthusiasm about books in general. My sister a seventh grade English teacher said it’s hard for authors to get to a point. She told me this one book took 126 pp before setting an action step the reader could take. That’s longer than The Old Man and the Sea, for Pete’s sake. About 15 or so years ago I picked up a compilation of the “best” science fiction short stories and I just didn’t get most of them. If you were to ask me what a particular story was about I would have shrugged because I didn’t know what it was about. Not really. Most of the stories were well written in the sense that the authors could set up a scene, but what were they about? I had no idea. I half remember someone asking Stephen King why so many adults enjoyed YA fiction. His answer was that they had a satisfying narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/62 "2023-07-29T23:54:56Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I miss new bookstores too. Anybody remember Borders Books? It had a nice balance between being a big-box B&N type store, yet with a friendly indie feel. They may have been just a local SE Michigan chain, I’m not sure. There were more than 30 Borders stores in Australia, NZ and Singapore. They came in, worked hard to crush competing independent and local chains by applying a ruthless and unsustainable business model that cherished everything except books, an then they imploded, leaving all this collateral damage. May their executives all rot in hell. For Barnes + Noble, if they recruit sensible staff who get to know their market and product, allowing them to respond by tweaking their stores into more attractive destinations is sensible. I’ve never been convinced that turning a bookstore into a cafe or wi-fi hub and hope that people buy books as well is going to generate turnover. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/63 "2023-07-30T18:57:11Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The B&N near me not only has a cafe, it has also branched out into toys (plenty of board games and Legos) and also vinyl LPs. They have essentially co-oped the niche that used to be dominated by Hallmark stores. They made a killing selling jigsaw puzzles during the pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/64 "2023-07-30T20:45:43Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m on the younger side of Gen X and I generally just can’t get used to eBooks. > [@pulykamell](#): > > My wife is a few years younger than me and in computer science, and I’ve never once seen her with an eBook. I’m a younger GenX as well, and while I’m an out-of-touch luddite, my wife is 14 years younger than me and in computer science. I have never seen her with an eBook, and she’s an avid reader (as am I). Stuff I read off a screen just doesn’t seem to stick with me the same as when reading the same stuff off a book, so the dead tree version is a superior platform to me. I have heard many people say the same. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/65 "2023-07-30T20:48:37Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Stuff I read off a screen just doesn’t seem to stick with me the same as when reading the same stuff off a book, so the dead tree version is a superior platform to me. And yet you probably don’t print out SDMB posts to read. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/66 "2023-07-30T20:50:35Z")
This is fluffy pastime activity to me, which doesn’t need to stick. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/67 "2023-07-30T21:39:11Z")
I saw a study somewhere saying stuff on a printed page was easier to remember than stuff on a screen, with recall rates perhaps thrice as high. I’m sure it depends on the person and material, but that’s a big difference if true. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/68 "2023-07-30T23:54:16Z")
I didn’t switch to an e-reader because I thought it provided a superior reading experience. I switched because at this point in my life I’ve accumulated enough junk and don’t want more books cluttering the house. When Barnes & Noble arrived in Plano, Texas back in 1996 or 1997 it was a magical place. I was used to smaller bookstores like B. Dalton or Waldenbooks and B&N was an entirely different experience. They sold music, including a lot of classical that I liked at the time, their selection of books was crazy, it was like a library except I had to pay for the books, and they had their own coffee place called Starbucks. It would take me a little while to realize Starbucks was its own thing and not just a place at B&N. I don’t go to B&N very often these days, not since I purchased a Kindle so many year ago. When I do go, it’s to look at their boardgames or maybe some educational toys for my nieces. ---
**Author:** ![Nayna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ebca7d/32.png) [@Nayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nayna)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/69 "2023-08-01T10:06:30Z")
B&N doesn’t satisfy any of the criteria I’d consider when buying a book. There’s one close to me, and it just feels like a mall - brightly lit, with thousands of books, cards, games, stationery, pens, toys, puzzles, journals, Starbucks. Very few employees, always behind registers or Customer Service desks. Expensive. I don’t read paper books anymore, but I do buy a lot of books as gifts, and I always go to the indie down the street from my office. The employees know my name and I know theirs. They give me 20% off children’s books because they know my daughter is a teacher. They’re knowledgeable and they love reading as much as I do. They can order anything, and it takes a few days to get it in stock. I use Amazon all the time, but I don’t even consider it for books. I personally use a Kindle, because I read a lot in the middle of the night and I don’t want to deal with sitting up in bed and turning on a light. It’s also great when I travel - I’d rather stick a Kindle in my bag than three novels. I’m usually also listening to an audiobook during my commute. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/70 "2023-08-01T13:32:38Z")
Personally, I only buy my books from certain orders of cloistered monks – primarily Benedictine and Carthusians – who hand copy manuscripts with a quill and inkwell working in individual cells. I find that this process makes them immensely knowledgeable about the selection available. Of course, they can’t communicate any of that due to their vow of silence, but it still makes me feel good that they know it. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/71 "2023-08-01T15:37:51Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Synergy is fine, as long as it’s also dynamic. better yet: _Dramatically increase dynamics in the respective synergy space_ (… and yes, chances are you are working in a BS job if you utter stuff like that … ) ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/72 "2023-08-01T19:15:25Z")
You know things are about to go sideways at work if management ramps up the buzzwords. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/73 "2023-08-01T20:18:13Z")
Buzzword Bankruptcy Bingo FTW? ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/74 "2023-08-01T20:38:21Z")
you got that wrong … we are not bankrupt … we are re-structuring now … to better serve you and our community ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/75 "2023-08-01T20:46:36Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Personally, I only buy my books from certain orders of cloistered monks – primarily Benedictine and Carthusians – who hand copy manuscripts with a quill and inkwell working in individual cells. I find that this process makes them immensely knowledgeable about the selection available. Of course, they can’t communicate any of that due to their vow of silence, but it still makes me feel good that they know it. Admit it. You just buy from them because you like the dirty pictures they draw in the margins. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/76 "2023-08-01T21:10:45Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Maybe it could use a couple of nooks with comfy chairs? At mine they have several comfy chairs. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > The public, including the reading public, has minimal interest in dead tree books. No amount of retail outlet design can re-create that long-gone demand. Nonsense. Not to mention Borders sells gifts, games, toys, and e-books. I have a regular smart phone. But it is really hard for me, a senior citizen to read books on it. And America is ageing. My buddy does like ebooks, but he has one of those fold out phones, with over twice the surface area. Not everyone can afford one of those. But even he wont read magazines or graphic novels on it. But tell me, are you a reader? Do you read a lot? > [@LSLGuy](#): > > If they want to try to recreate a library _cum_ Starbucks experience… Mine has a Starbucks inside. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > I do miss bookstore cats. I haven’t seen one outside of in New Orleans in over a decade now. Recycle Books stores make a point of having one… or two. This is in the San Jose area. > [@DPRK](#): > > The fantasy would be that said employees know and love books and would take the time to discuss them with you… maybe not a giant chain store thing. I worked PT for Borders, and even as a PT employee, won several sales awards by doing exactly that, and my Manager loved it. You can get that at a B&N also. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > But one thing - let’s say I go to one, and I find a neat book I never heard of: “The World’s Greatest Tow Trucks”. So I buy it, it’s great, never knew such a book existed. So I want another! But I could travel to every bookstore in three states, and never find another one in the series. > > But on Amazon, I can get most of them. And I find there is also “World’s Greatest Working Trucks”, and “Peterbilt Trucks of the 60’s” and a metric shit-ton of similar books. Do I feel the least pang of guilt for buying them from Amazon\*? nope! Ah, but you’d never have found the first book on Amazon in the first place. > [@suranyi](#): > > I’ve tried reading ebooks, I even had a Kindle device for a while, but I’ve gone back to paper books. Staying on an electronic device that long strains my eyes. Exactly. > [@Bashorian](#): > > I also don’t understand how moving the café and the magazine section to a remote area of the store is better than having them in more prominent locations. I dont expect big changes either, but generally all the store sin a chain have to use a pal-o-gram. But in one area for example, maybe mysteries are really popular, so giving them a better spot m makes sense > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Our local B&N had a room for book groups to meet in for free. Again, not any more. Local musicians are gone too. Getting people back to the stores for old comforts might be a path to success. No independents survive locally, except for a couple of boutiques. And they never last. My B&N has quite a few events, like once a month D&D night. They had a Lego trading nite. Used bookstores are doing really well. One reason is the price- you can get the same book used on Amazon, maybe from an Indy, but with $4 S&H added. On a $4 PB book, that doubles the price. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I think the target customer for a brick-and-mortar bookstore in this day and age wouldn’t be the person who already knows exactly what book they want, but the person who wants to browse and is open to buying something they didn’t know they wanted when they walked in. Right. I find and buy quite a few new authors and books that way. I found "_The Wager"_ a great see story, based heavily on facts. Why hasnt on-line grocery shopping killed the grocery store? > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > And yet you probably don’t print out SDMB posts to read. I have not yet found a way to print on toilet paper. 😛 😜 ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/77 "2023-08-01T21:49:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have a regular smart phone. But it is really hard for me, a senior citizen to read books on it. And America is ageing. > > My buddy does like ebooks, but he has one of those fold out phones, with over twice the surface area. Not everyone can afford one of those. But even he wont read magazines or graphic novels on it. A phone (or tablet) should be _easier_ for older people to read on because of adjustable fonts. And you don’t need a $1500 flagship folding smartphone for igger size, a sub-$100 tablet will do. I use my smartphone for reading novels and a 7 inch tablet for graphic novels/comics/manga (7 inch is better for holding than the more traditional 8 inch). I recently replaced my generic 7 inch tablet with a 256 GB MicroSD card (and a scratched up plastic screen, which was the main problem) with a refurb Kindle Fire 7 inch, case, and 512 GB MicroSD, all for less than 70 bucks. I have around 1.2 million pages of comics/manga stored on it and it is still less than half full. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/78 "2023-08-01T23:13:19Z")
Interesting thread. I was in a Barnes and Noble a few days ago for the first time in about 10 years. After years of reading e-books, it reminded me how much I missed bookstores. I saw hundreds of books that would never show up on an Amazon search and spent about two hours checking everything out. And the place was packed with people. Anyone who says nobody cares about printed books anymore is clearly mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/79 "2023-08-01T23:29:42Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > And the place was packed with people. Anyone who says nobody cares about printed books anymore is clearly mistaken. Then why are they nearly out of business? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789/80 "2023-08-01T23:32:57Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > . I saw hundreds of books that would never show up on an Amazon search Why wouldn’t they? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barnes-noble-changes-and-the-future-of-bookstores/987789.md?page=5)