The fairness issue is one that’s hard to dismiss, but unfortunately it’s used to disguise the general call-to-hate that the right uses to stain everything to do with being trans. That’s why I think the Democrats should be specific about the rules in the sports that draw the line via ‘when did you transition and when did you go through puberty?’ rather than ‘does your gender match your birth certificate?’
They have. No Dem leader wants to “defund the police”, and no one wants open borders.
Good points.
Note that when Newsom talked about sports and trans rights, he was labeled (here and on the web) as a bigot and anti-trans. See the thread on Democratic candidates for 2028. And his stance was neutral.
Right.
A tiny majority of voters in one election year. Other election years differ. What happened in 2024 is not how the USA thinks.
America loves it some barely-regulated capitalism. Not just the bosses - all the rugged individualists that believe poor people are just lazy and anyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and become prosperous if you just put your head down and work hard enough. It is probably the most economically right country in the developed Western world - no other nation in that category is as reflexively hostile to “creeping socialism” as the United States..
As I mentioned in another thread, this is as naive as saying we just need to communicate how terrible Trump is, then all the senior GOP figures will realize their error and switch sides.
The Democrats could adopt every single hateful piece of transphobic GOP legislation and they would still be portrayed as favoring mandatory sex changes for all toddlers.
Trump didn’t win by saying “I agree with the Democrats on these specific issues but they are totally wrong on all the others”. He lumped all the Democrat’s policies into one and claimed they were destroying America. Right now the Democrats could the same in reverse and be objectively right. Now is not the time to be “well the GOP maybe be leading us into fascist dictatorship in a turd filled dumpster fire, but they have a point about locker rooms!”. Fuck that.
Every single one of the GOP policies, the tariffs, the transphobia, the war in Iran, the ICE gestapo, the pathetic fascist state sponsored cult of personality, it’s all destroying America and every single bit of it needs to expunged for us to survive as a politician union.
Yeah, the Dems need to stay away from the issue of trans in sports.
No they need to own it. The GOP want to inspect children’s genitalia to see if they can play on a sports team. Fuck that shit it’s disgusting and unamerican
By stay away I mean concentrate on trans rights- all the time- everywhere, without specifically mentioning sports. Trans sports in High School is an issue that has normally Liberal parents going crazy. I dont know exactly why, but it is an issue where even liberals can disagree.
Right.
Let’s take a step back. Why does anyone support or promote diversity, inclusivity, and acceptance? Because “diversity is our strength,” or “together we are stronger,” or whatever jingle you want? Maybe that’s why companies or organizations espouse it. But why would a nation?
It’s because our nation is by the people, of the people, and for the people. If the people are gay and getting married, the government should be for them. If the people are Somali immigrants who don’t speak English, the government should be for them. If the people are trans, or black, or Muslim, or whatever, the government should be for them. A government of the people, founded on basic principles of equality and self-determination, should make every reasonable effort to be for everyone.
The fundamental problem with conservatives is that they don’t agree. They don’t think that America is a grand experiment in self-governance that should change just as often as the people change. No, they think that America is “built on Judeo-Christian values,” meaning that if America ever stops looking like the white, Anglo, protestant history that they pretend has always existed, then it will fall. Or, at least, it will stop being “America.” They think that diversity makes us weak. I don’t agree, but I also don’t care. I’d rather be weak and abide by our principles.
Giving up support for marginalized groups who only want what our country promises – equality and self-determination – means giving up what we believe this country is for. I don’t think this is negotiable, even if it means losing elections.
I think more like MAGAs/bigots, but conservatives do not have to be bigots.
I agree that conservatives don’t have to be bigots, but I do think that this fundamental disagreement about what America is extends beyond MAGA/bigots. It goes back to the founding of our country and was never resolved.
I expanded on this in another thread recently, but in short – conservatives who believe that America is for white, Anglo, protestant people (basically Western chauvinism) may not have any problem with minorities. These particular conservatives don’t have a problem with black Republicans who agree with them on everything, they don’t have a problem with Asian immigrants who assimilate readily, they don’t have a problem with gay people as long as they keep hush about what they do in the bedroom.
They just don’t want any of that stuff becoming “American.” Straight, white, protestant men need to be calling the shots, because they’re the True Americans ™. Immigrants need to come from non-shithole countries and then assimilate quickly or (preferably not come here at all). They certainly shouldn’t become US Represenatives or hold any positions of power.
I could go on, but I honestly think they’re OK with every nation being an ethno-state. Most of the world is ethno-states, and they’re bitter that someone dared create a country that isn’t their ethno-state. They’re ethno-stateless and it makes them mad.
…the reason why progressives can be so militant about things like trans rights is because of how easy it is to lose them. Take trans people playing sports, for example. Look how quickly we turn.
From Parker Molloy’s article on trans sports:
Because if you’re talking about a 6’10” trans woman who went through a regular testosterone-driven puberty and has been on hormones for 6 months, we can probably all agree that this hypothetical person would have what many would consider an unfair advantage in sports like basketball or volleyball.
But does that same hypothetical athlete have an unfair advantage in gymnastics? Maybe not. That’s why the question of “which sport” matters. Similarly, trans girls who never went through a testosterone-driven puberty (something many states are trying to force them to go through, causing the type of unfair advantage in athletics those same activists and lawmakers claim to care so much about) don’t have any inherent advantage at all in any sport.
…
An 8-year-old trans girl1 does not have any advantage2 over any other 8-year-old girl in any sport. A 15-year-old trans girl who has been on puberty blockers does not have any advantage over any other 15-year-old girl. A 25-year-old trans woman who took puberty blockers and later began hormone replacement therapy later in her teens does not have any advantage over any other 25-year-old woman in any sport. None of this should be in any way controversial.
There shouldn’t be any controversy here. And ‘having gone through male puberty’ absolutely should not be the dividing line. The science and data are all there.
And that’s the issue here. This is why the progressives push back. We can’t concede on sports because that pushes the line back.
And what happened to Labour in the UK shows both how completely and how quickly the line can get overrun. Labour was the “left-wing” party that got overtaken by “centrists” that have now pushed the party to the right. And they are actively anti-trans both in words and in policy, from sports to healthcare for trans kids to bathrooms.
The speed at which anti-trans rhetoric has been normalised in the UK should be a warning to everyone around the world. The demarcation between “left” and “right” isn’t how it used to be. The Conservatives and UK Labour are almost the same right now, leaning right. Reform are “MAGA”/alt-right and the Greens are the progressive left.
And in the US, old-school Republicians and the Democrat establishment remind me of what we have seen in the UK. You won’t find much difference. MAGA is ascendant. And there is no Green Party equivalent: the progressives are marginalised.
The progressive position is that you need to hold the line. Because every time you capitulate, the line gets pushed back. We’ve seen this happen in the UK. You’ve seen it happen with abortion.
There is a Dem purity test. But it’s not the one you think. Uncommitted weren’t allowed to speak at the dem convention. The word “trans” was only ever mentioned once. As always with these things, every accusation is a confession. The ones speaking most loudly about “purity tests” are the ones who have actual, literal purity tests.
I think he’s a bigot and anti-trans. When you have Charlie Kirk on his inaugural podcast, and he comes out agreeing with the anti-trans bigot on an anti-trans talking point I think I’m entitled to think that.
And I really expected more from a 51-page document than a couple of paragraphs. What I expect from the “left-wing” parties around the world is nothing less than this:
Full-throated unconditional support. No “carve-outs” for sports or bathrooms. Until its done.
Because it never ever stops there.
The thing is its always some wedge issue.
Either its gun control, or third trimester abortion, or trans rights. Theres always some social issue that the democrats are supposed to give up.
Meanwhile 75 million people happily voted for a severely mentally ill criminal who violently rapes children. The problem with America is the people, and nothing is going to change that.
I do feel that the democrats aren’t willing to address economic issues, because that offends their corporate sponsors. So they try to make up for it by doubling down on social issues instead.
That sounds like bigotry to me.
Sure, because…wait for it.. they are 6’10". Not due because they are trans.
Newsom has done more for LGBT rights than any politician alive. He did not agree with Kirk-he outsmarted Kirk-
…Charlie Kirk. The co-founder and executive director of the rightwing Turning Point USA, a Phoenix-based organization that operates on school campuses, told Newsom: “You, right now, should come out and be like: ‘You know what? The young man who’s about to win the state championship in the long jump in female sports – that shouldn’t happen.’ You, as the governor, should step out and say: ‘No.’”
The governor responded: “I think it’s an issue of fairness. I completely agree with you on that … it’s deeply unfair.”
Note what Kirk said that a young MAN should not play in women’s sports- and Newsom agreed- because of course to Newsom a trans person is the sex they transitioned into/identify as . So, yes, a young identified as such male should not be playing in women’s sports. A person who has transitioned and identified as a female certainly can. See Newsom was giving Kirk a dose of his own bigotry, and Kirk wasnt smart enough to figure it out. Newsom is smarter that Kirk was. And smarter than that writer for the Guardian.
I think we all agree that if a school has womens sports and mens sports- that a person who is male and identifies as male should not compete in woman’s sports, right?
But as far as i am concerned once a person has transitioned they are that new gender, so they play in that team.
Sorry, what?
…this isn’t what Parker was talking about.
LOL. ROFLMAO.
You aren’t serious, right?
You know the world is a very big place, right? I could list probably a hundred politicians alive right now who have done more for LGBTQ+ rights than Newsom has. And a number of dead ones as well. Georgina Beyer comes firmly to mind.
No this isn’t how it works. This requires one to accept a very specific framing that allows you to give Newsom a pass. It means you have to accept that Newsom was trolling here and that he expected the audience to just get it.
But that isn’t what trans people or their supporters want. That isn’t how one would expect the person who has done more for “LGBT rights than any politician alive” to act.
What they want is to not platform bigotry, but if you do, then at the very least confront it and reject it. That isn’t too much to ask.
Newsom is thick as shit. You have to be thick as shit if you think having Charlie Kirk on your podcast is a good idea.
And the writer for the Guardian was quoting members of the California legislative LGBTQ+ caucus and human rights campaigners. If they all allegedly misunderstood Newsom’s messaging, that’s a problem with the message, not the people responding to it. Trans people need allies, not the equivalent of being an internet troll. And allies should be having trans people on their podcasts, not Charlie Kirk, Michael Savage and Steve Bannon.
But based on LGBTQ+ group Equality California’s database of legislation it has backed, plus The Advocate’s reporting, we count 47 pro-LGBTQ+ bills Newsom has signed into law since taking office in 2019, of which 21 specifically benefited transgender people. Most of the generally pro-LGBTQ+ bills benefit trans people as well.
Among the specifically pro-trans bills are one making California a sanctuary state for out-of-state young people and their families seeking gender-affirming care; one preventing teachers from being forced to out trans students to their families; several addressing name and gender changes on official documents, either easing the process, assuring usage, or protecting confidentiality; and one requiring single-user restrooms to be labeled all-gender.
And as far as trans athletes are concerned-
Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom’s staff termed the proposed agreement a “political document” and said it had no legal validity. It would also make the state violate its own trans-inclusive nondiscrimination laws, Newsom’s aides said. California passed a law in 2013 allowing students to play on sports teams consistent with their gender identity.
In other words, you can believe that Newsom is against trans athletes because he trolled Kirk, or you can see what he has actually DONE, which is support trans athletes and defied the tramp administration over it.
Yes, those that actually stand up for them and pass bills, and defy the bigoted President- like Newsom.
Exactly. The fact is they’re fast approaching the loss of their majority status and they’re panicking. They’re doing their best to stop it but it will never work. They can’t quite comprehend that while they spit out the word “progressive” as a pejorative, reality is progressive. Progressive is the natural order of things. I wonder if there’s a way to get that point across and emphasize that Dems are the ones preparing for the future, and everyone is welcome to come along and have their voice heard.
…firstly, your cite doesn’t prove your point. It’s a very purposeful, deliberate metric that doesn’t demonstrate “Newsom has done more for LGBT rights than any politician alive”. It’s a metric that only compares governors in the United States of America. And let’s be frank: that isn’t a high bar to reach.
It doesn’t compare him to every single other politician in the world.
When he explicitly says it on the record and stops hiding behind “we will follow the law” rhetoric, then you might turn me around. But understand: this is “follow the law” rhetoric. It’s the same wishy-washy policy position that Harris took at the election.
In a statement, Gov. Gavin Newsom’s office said the CIF and the state Education Department are following existing state law, which he said is in line with 21 other states’ laws and doesn’t violate Title IX.
“No court has adopted the interpretation of Title IX advanced by the federal government and neither the governor, nor they, get to wave a magic wand and override it,” Newsom’s office said via email. “Unlike Donald Trump, California follows the law.”
If he supports trans women playing women’s sports, he can just do the real simple thing and say it out loud.
Let him speak for himself. And he should really stop palling around with the alt-right because that does him no favours.
Newsom kick-started the gay marriage debate in the United States by allowing/promoting legal gay marriage in San Francisco when he was mayor. He basically threw the first snowball that started the avalanche. While it could be labeled cynical by local political standards (SF being as gay friendly as it is), for someone with wider political ambitions it was a bold move. He deserves credit regardless of motive for having some balls on that one.
Whether he has ‘done more than any politician alive’ is of course a much more debatable point.