Now, sure, ultimately the investigation showed that they didn’t actually follow through on any of the attempts by Russia to collude with them, but absent that investigation, there’s no way we could have known that. The investigation was a perfectly reasonable response to the information they had at the time.
And the fact that they eventually absolved Trump et al. of culpability is proof that it was not a politically motivated witch hunt as Trump et al. have been asserting for years now.
If he thinks that, then he should absolutely carry out an investigation. The problem is, there’s no way his belief is reasonable. He’s already shown a willingness to lie about this case, and there’s no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.
I understand what you mean, but ultimately, Mueller did conclude the evidence wasn’t enough to support a charge on the original conspiracy accusations. There’s still enough other stuff that Trump et al. are clearly guilty of that I figure we should focus on that.
But my main issue is with the “no reason to even investigate” claim, which is clearly false. There were a lot of sketchy things going on, and a whole lot of them at least looked like collusion, and any reasonable person should have supported the investigation on that basis alone, regardless of what they might think of the ultimate conclusions.
We’ll see how the Russophobes react when Barr unleashes the spooks onto the Biden campaign ostensibly for his Ukrainian cronyism or Bernie Sanders for his wacky past.
Also, the Clinton campaign conspired with a foreign spook, the US spooks knew this, yet no investigation.
No I think it’s rather sordid, but it is an expected behavior of states. My vantage point as a nonpartisan observer allows me to see the hypocrisy and mirror images.
I have explained in the past that the election of Trump is proof of the decline of the US regime. No spy apparatus worth its salt would allow for the election of someone so grotesque as to undermine the perceived legitimacy of the state itself. The Dulles brothers would be rolling over in their grave. The US state used to attract competent elites. Now we are left with the Brennans, Clappers, and Pompeos.
You may have been confused by Maddow. Mueller didn’t indict for collusion/conspiracy/coordination because there was none. He had other reasons for not indicting on other charges.
I think it’s more correct to say that they couldn’t uncover sufficient evidence because of all the lying and obstruction going on, for which there have been several successful prosecutions, and I think more in the works.
That was for the issue of the obstruction of justice. It’s quite clear to anyone not a GOP partisan that Trump is guilty as hell of obstruction, and that Mueller referred those charges to Congress because of the DOJ policy on Presidents as you mention.
But, as discussed above, the collusion charges were not supported by adequate evidence. The reasons for the lack of evidence can be argued, but Mueller’s conclusion is pretty clear.
You may have been confused by poor reading skills. It doesn’t say “there was none.” It says they couldn’t show enough evidence to bring a charge, which is not the same thing:
One reason, (as RitterSport notes), is that
I agree there’s a likelihood that indeed, technically they didn’t conspire. Maybe they were just too incompetent. Or maybe they knew that they just didn’t need to. It wasn’t necessary, because the Russians did it all on their own.
Heres the thing about the left. We don’t care if you investigate our politicians. We don’t want our politicians to be above the law. The right does. Its a rather worrysome situation where the right has been taken over by neofascists who hate the rule of law.
But by all means, if Sanders, Biden, Clinton, etc. have actually broken the law feel free to investigate them. Nobody should be above the rule of law.
The fact that right wingers expect our side to think the rule of law is just a partisan tool rather than a necessary tenet of civilized democracy is just projection and very worrysome because it shows how little respect they have for the rule of law. The hatred for democracy and all it stands for (rule of law, free and fair elections, transparency, a free media, independent judiciary, etc) seen in the modern right in the US is very worrysome and something the rest of us need to take very serious.
Also how did Clinton conspire with a foreign spook? She hired an ex MI6 agent to research Trump’s treasonous behavior. That is like saying police officers who work undercover in gang operations should be prosecuted for being gang members. Since when is investigating a crime a crime itself?
Muellers investigation led to 14 cases being handed off to other prosecutors. Only 2 of those cases are public, the other 12 are still redacted. An investigation leading to 14 different criminal investigations is not a witchhunt. It only appears to be a witchhunt to neofascists who hate modern democracy and the rule of law and think the police should be there to terrorize their enemies and protect their friends.
It was my understanding that Fusion GPS hired Chris Steele (ex MI6 agent with a lot of experience in Russia) to look into Trump’s Russia ties. WHat he found was so disturbing that he kept up the research even after he stopped getting paid.
My understanding is that both the Jeb Bush & Clinton campaigns funded the research.
Why don’t you first tell me all the things wrong with the statement I said was false? Because now you’re changing what you said (by adding details and clarifiers).