# Barrington Chadsworth IV: Upper class American name? Why? How? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 10, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365 "2010-02-10T02:49:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/21 "2010-02-11T01:38:42Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > It’s not only upper class families in the UK who use surnames as given names, though: the decidedly working class family of actor Robson Green does, for instance. I have a cousin who has the first name “Robson.” His father chose it for his mother’s side of the family (my side, as it were). Since they didn’t have the Robson last name, he figured his son could just go by a diminutive or nickname (Robin or Rob). Works fine. No pretension. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/22 "2010-02-11T07:57:17Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:21, topic:528365”] I have a cousin who has the first name “Robson.” His father chose it for his mother’s side of the family (my side, as it were). Since they didn’t have the Robson last name, he figured his son could just go by a diminutive or nickname (Robin or Rob). Works fine. No pretension. [/QUOTE] I’ve come across this before, the mother’s maiden name as the child’s name or middle name. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/23 "2010-02-11T10:07:58Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I’ve come across this before, the mother’s maiden name as the child’s name or middle name. It’s nothing new. For example, Meriwether Lewis, of Lewis & Clark fame, received his mother’s maiden name. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/24 "2010-02-11T11:09:47Z")
And Clark Kent of Lois & Clark fame received his [mother’s](http://smallville.wikia.com/wiki/Martha_Kent)maiden name. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/25 "2010-02-11T11:16:52Z")
In my family, not at all wealthy or aristocratic, for three generations now, all children have received my paternal grandmother’s maiden name as a middle name. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/26 "2010-02-11T15:36:20Z")
The upper crust names are simple caricatures. There may have been one or two individuals who held them but most of them were the inventions of lower class satirists. Harvard did a [time capsule for the Class of 1900.](http://oasis.lib.harvard.edu/oasis/deliver/~hua09003) > [@](#): > > Frederic Bonnet Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (SM, 1902; PhD, 1903), Assistant in the Chemistry Department > Edward Cornelius Briggs Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (DMD, 1878; MD, 1880), Instructor in Dental Materials > William Garrot Brown Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: taught history and served as Deputy Keeper of University Records > Frank Carney Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: in charge of stacks in the Harvard College Library > Harrie Rogers Chamberlain Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1901; AM, 1902), student in Harvard College > Archibald Cary Coolidge Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1887), taught history and was Director of the Harvard College Library > Julian Lowell Coolidge Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1895), Instructor in Mathematics > (William) Thomas Councilman Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AM, hon., 1899), Professor of Pathological Anatomy > T. Franklin Currier Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1894), Assistant in charge of Cataloging (later Associate Lbrarian) in the Harvard College Library > Francis Henry Davenport Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (MD, 1874), Assistant Professor of Gynecology > William Morris Davis Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (SB, 1869), Sturgis-Hooper Professor of Geology > Richard Derby Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1903; Overseer, 1923-1929), freshman in Harvard College > Durant Drake Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1900), senior in Harvard College > (Harry) Kellogg Durland Box 58 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: special student > Anna Belle Eisenhower Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, Radcliffe, 1900; AM, Radcliffe, 1907), senior in Radcliffe College > Ephraim Emerton Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1871), Professor of Ecclesiastical History > Roger Ernst Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1903; AM, 1904; LLB, 1906), sophomore in Harvard College > Thomas Fillebrown Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (DMD, 1869), Professor of Operative Dentistry > Carl Russell Fish Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (PhD, 1900), completing his doctoral work in history > Williamina Paton Stevens Fleming, Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: Curator of Astronomical Photographs in the Harvard College Observatory > Paul Revere Frothingham Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (STB, AM, 1889; STD, 1915; Overseer, 1904-1910 and 1918-1924), Preacher to the University > Katharine Fullerton Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, Radcliffe, 1900), senior in Radcliffe College > Charles Montraville Green Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1874; MD, 1877), Associate Professor of Obstetrics and Clinical Gynecology, and Secretary of the Faculty of Medicine > James Bradstreet Greenough Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1856), Professor of Latin > Edward Hale Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1879),Assistant Professor of Homiletics > Asaph Hall Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AM, hon., 1879), Lecturer on Celestial Mechanics > Paul Henry Hanus, Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: Professor of History and of the Art of Teaching > Charles Homer Haskins Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AM, hon., 1908; LittD, 1924), Temporary Lecturer in History (later Professor and Dean of the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences) > Adams Sherman Hill Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1853; LLB, 1855; LLD, 1903), Boylston Professor of Rhetoric and Oratory > Hyatt family Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: The Hyatt family consisted of Alpheus Hyatt (SB, 1862, LLD, Brown, 1898, Professor of Biology and Zoology at Boston University and Assistant in the Museum of Comparative Zoology ), Ardella Hyatt, and their daughter, Harriet Randolph Hyatt. Another daughter, Anna Vaughn Hyatt, lived in the household, while son Alpheus did not. > Frank Lowell Kennedy Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1892; SB, 1898), Instructor in Mechanical Drawing > William Coolidge Lane Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1881), Librarian in Harvard College Library and organizer of the Chest of 1900 project > Charles Rockwell Lanman, Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: Professor of Sanskrit > Edison Lewis Box 59 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1902), sophomore in Harvard College > Warren Andrew Locke Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1869), Organist and Choirmaster in Appleton Chapel > Robert Gardner Loring Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1892; MD, 1896), Assistant in Anatomy > David Gordon Lyon Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AM, hon., 1901), Hollis Professor of Divinity > Robert MacDonald Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1894; AM, 1895; STB, 1896), Preacher to the University > Morgan Morris Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1881), Professor of Classical Philology > William Morrow Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1900; AM, 1901), senior in Harvard College > James Ambrose Moyer Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (SB, 1899), Instructor in Descriptive Geometry > James Gregory Mumford Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1885), Assistant in Clinical and Operative Surgery > Hugo Münsterberg Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AM, hon., 1901), Professor of Psychology > John Frederick Neal Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1897; LLB, 1900), proctor and third-year law student > Albert Hitchings Newhall Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1898; AM, 1899), Assistant in History > John Orne, Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: Curator of Arabic Manuscripts in the Semitic Museum > Alice Freeman Palmer, Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: President of Wellesley College (1882-1887), wife of George Herbert Palmer > George Herbert Palmer Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1864), Alford Professor of Natural Religion, Moral Philosophy and Civil Polity, and husband of Alice Freeman Palmer > Lucy Allen Paton, Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: graduate student in Radcliffe College > Francis Greenwood Peabody Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1869), Plummer Professor of Christian Morals (Overseer, 1877-1882; Dean of the Divinity School, 1901-1906) > Edward Charles Pickering Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (SB, 1865), Paine Professor of Practical Astronomy and Director of the Harvard College Observatory > Evan Randolph Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1903), freshman in Harvard College > William Howell Reed Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1898; AM, 1899), Assistant in German > A. Lawrence Rotch Box 60 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AM, hon., 1891), Assistant in Meteorology (later Professor, and founder of the Blue Hill Observatory) > Dudley Allen Sargent, Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: Assistant Professor of Physical Education > Arthur Searle Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1856), Phillips Professor of Astronomy > Eliot Spalding Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1900), senior in Harvard College > Lucy Sprague Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1900, Radcliffe), senior in Radcliffe College > Horace Baxter Stanton Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1900; LLB, 1903), senior in Harvard College > George Russell Stobbs Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1899; AM, 1900; LLB, 1902), Assistant in History > Francis Humphreys Storer Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (SB, 1855), Dean of the Bussey Institute > Malcolm Storer Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1885; MD, 1889), Curator of Coins, and Assistant in Gynecology > Joseph Henry Thayer Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1850; AM 1864; STD, 1884), Bussey Professor of New Testament Criticism and Interpretation in Harvard Divinity School. > William Hopkins Tillinghast Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1877), Assistant Librarian in the Harvard College Library > Crawford Howell Toy Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (Lld, hon., 1904), Professor of Oriental Languages > Alfred Marston Tozzer Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1900; AM, 1901; PhD, 1904), senior in Harvard College > Barrett Wendell Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1877; LittD, 1918; Overseer, 1920-1921), Professor of English > Julius Georg Wilhelm Werner Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (DMD, 1876), Clinical Instructor in Operative Dentistry > Charles James White Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1890; MD, 1893), Assistant in Dermatology > James Clarke White Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1853; MD, 1856), Professor of Dermatology (and Charles James White?s father) > Samuel Williston Box 61 > Degree/s, schools, and/or occupation:: (AB, 1882), Professor of Law Paul Revere Frothingham is a funny name. Charles James White isn’t. About 99% are ordinary. And not one single Junior, let alone a III or a IV. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/27 "2010-02-11T17:41:13Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Which is why there are no upper-class people with names like Elizabeth, Charles, or William today… Upper-class Britons often (though not always) have titles of some sort (Duke, Lord, Sir, the Hon, etc) to distinguish themselves from the lower classes. Americans must reley on their names. [Here’s](http://www.bartleby.com/95/10.html) what Miss Emily Post had to say on the matter back in the '20s. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/28 "2010-02-11T17:48:11Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I haven’t read _Freakanomics_: do the authors give stats to support this? I just had to drop in to say that this made me laugh. For anybody who hasn’t read the book: Everything in it is backed up heavily with statistics. Which isn’t to say their conclusions are always right or their analysis necessarily takes everything into account, but the stats are definitely there. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/29 "2010-02-11T17:51:04Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Fifty years ago that was certainly the stereotype of an old-money name. Consider the character of Chatsworth Osborne Jr. in _The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis_: > > [The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis (TV Series 1959–1963) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052490/) > > I’m not so sure that today the stereotype holds up as well. Trivia - Chatsworth and Osborne are both major streets in the San Fernando Valley (The Valley) section of Los Angeles. The writers were using an old trick for coming up with character names by using street names, but with the intent of sounding “upper crust”. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/30 "2010-02-11T18:36:57Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Trivia - Chatsworth and Osborne are both major streets in the San Fernando Valley (The Valley) section of Los Angeles. The writers were using an old trick for coming up with character names by using street names, but with the intent of sounding “upper crust”. What about Milton and Armitage, who was the character that Chatsworth replaced? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/31 "2010-02-11T18:43:54Z")
alphaboi867 writes: \> Upper-class Britons often (though not always) have titles of some sort (Duke, \> Lord, Sir, the Hon, etc) to distinguish themselves from the lower classes. No, they don’t. I’ll let some Brits correct me if I’m wrong about this. I lived in the U.K. from 1987 to 1990, so I’m going by my memory. The number of Brits with titles is pretty small compared with the number above any given level of income or with the number who in social status are similarly high-level. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/32 "2010-02-11T19:45:27Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > alphaboi867 writes: > > \> Upper-class Britons often (though not always) have titles of some sort (Duke, > \> Lord, Sir, the Hon, etc) to distinguish themselves from the lower classes. > > No, they don’t. I’ll let some Brits correct me if I’m wrong about this. I lived in the U.K. from 1987 to 1990, so I’m going by my memory. The number of Brits with titles is pretty small compared with the number above any given level of income or with the number who in social status are similarly high-level. My dad told me the funny story about the successful factory owner who bought himself a peerage (house of lords title?). When selecting his peerage name, he chose the name of the street his factory was on. That way, everyone would think the street was named after him. Recently, the purchasable peerage has been a place for the truly pretentious. Lord Black, whose real name is Conrad Black bought one. He was a expelled from the best school in Canada, allegedly for cheating. he first got rich in business by “persuading” the widow of a partner to sell out the whole corporation (details are disputed). He also made money running several businesses into the ground, and was the impetus behind a Canadian law making it illegal for a company to remove money from pension funds. He built a media empire by the simple expedient of buying up newspapers, cutting costs below bone level, and milking the funds from shareholders with questionable management tactics - for which he’s currently doing time in US prison. Such are the upper crust of titled British society, bought and paid for. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/33 "2010-02-11T19:50:41Z")
Re: use of family/last names as personal/first names. I attended a family reunion a couple of years ago. My extended family does come from what could be considered southern aristocracy - old money, mostly from plantation ownership back in the day, captains of industry, etc. It was a running joke in the car on the way home that apparently, our family had been issued a finite number of names and had to come up with new combinations using only those names. FirstName1 LastName1 would be related to LastName1 LastName2. LastName2 LastName3 would be related to FirstName2 LastName1. FirstName3 LastName1 would be related to LastName2 FirstName1. etc. There were about five last names that were used as last, first, or middle names throughout the five hundred or so people there. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/34 "2010-02-11T20:00:41Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Recently, the purchasable peerage has been a place for the truly pretentious. You can’t _directly_ buy a peerage, although being a generous donor to party funds tends to expedite the matter. I’m not sure why Conrad Black got his though, as it was Tony Blair who put him forward, and Black and his newspaper were no friends of the Labour Party. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/35 "2010-02-11T20:35:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > What about Milton and Armitage, who was the character that Chatsworth replaced? Nope, not major streets. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365/36 "2010-02-11T20:51:40Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > …Such are the upper crust of titled British society, bought and paid for. Another example - a talented writer but a scummy guy: [Jeffrey Archer - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Archer) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barrington-chadsworth-iv-upper-class-american-name-why-how/528365.md?page=1)