# Barry Bonds is going down. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 7, 2006, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437 "2006-03-07T22:13:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/21 "2006-03-08T00:16:54Z")
Is there anyone left who finds any of this surprising? It may be a technicality, but was Bonds really cheating? Was he taking stuff on the banned list? Unless he bets on baseball, he won’t be banned and will be in the HOF. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/22 "2006-03-08T00:17:33Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > A sport wide ban on the drugs (specific or general) makes that question a little more difficult, I know. But were PEs even banned in MLB before this decade? And also note, I’m not saying Barry did it or not. I care not. But the “cheating” word brings up some questions I think. While I realize they weren’t, they were certainly classed as illegal substances. Is there any reason why the rule of baseball should be above the rule of the law? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/23 "2006-03-08T00:19:00Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > It wasn’t cheating as far as baseball was concerned, at least until last year. Oddly enough, Bonds didn’t play much last year, and seemed to take an extraordinarily long time to recover from his injuries. Hmmmm. Correction. Steroids were banned until after the 2002 season. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/24 "2006-03-08T00:20:37Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > While I realize they weren’t, they were certainly classed as illegal substances. Is there any reason why the rule of baseball should be above the rule of the law? Why do you assume that he is above the rule of law? Surely he would have been charged with a crime had he been found to have commited one. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/25 "2006-03-08T00:22:37Z")
No, no. I didn’t mean Bonds, specifically. It just irritates me that when steroid use in baseball, the first defense is always “But it wasn’t against the rules til after 2002!” Everyone seems to forget about a silly thing like it being against the law. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/26 "2006-03-08T00:23:41Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Bonds is continuing on in the long and noble tradition of getting away with whatever he can to win. He should be admired, not reviled, especially because he’s only hurting himself to do it. So, not only is everything okay if you don’t get caught, it should actually be cheered? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/27 "2006-03-08T00:24:04Z")
Dammit. That should be “when steroid use in baseball _is discussed_…” ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/28 "2006-03-08T00:24:39Z")
Steroids aren’t illegal. I was prescribed some by my doctor to fight a bad poison ivy infection. Fight my ignorance, tho. Are performance enhancing drugs (specific or general) illegal? I really want to know. Cites if possible please, one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/29 "2006-03-08T00:28:07Z")
I think the whole point of athletics is to use, measure and admire the abilities of the human body combined with the talent of individuals. And I don’t see any really good reason to ban steroids. If it is your job to perform physically I see nothing wrong with doing whatever you want to improve your ability to do so. I do think the players should be required to report what they use. But as far as I’m concerned, the detrimental side effects and dangers are nobody’s business but the athlete. So I don’t care if he did or didn’t. If he belongs in the Hall of Fame, he belongs in the Hall of Fame. Even if he is an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/30 "2006-03-08T00:29:18Z")
> [@Robot Arm](#): > > So, not only is everything okay if you don’t get caught, it should actually be cheered? It is, every day in virtually every sport. Why should we stop now. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/31 "2006-03-08T00:30:36Z")
Of course they are, sweetie, if there’s no prescription. There’s such a thing as liquid cocaine; it’s used to stop really horrible nose bleeds. Doesn’t make street cocaine legal. [Here ya go](http://www.thesteroidtruth.com/illegalsteroidsa.htm) > [@](#): > > Simple possession of any Schedule III substance is a federal offense punishable by up to one year in prison and/or a minimum fine of $1,000. Simple possession by a person with a previous conviction for certain offenses, including any drug or narcotic crimes, must get imprisonment of at least 15 days and up to two years, and a minimum fine of $2,500. Individuals with two or more such previous convictions face imprisonment of not less than 90 days but not more than three years, and a minimum fine of $5,000, just for simply possessing. Selling steroids, or possessing them with intent to sell, is a federal felony. An individual who sells steroids, or possesses with intent to sell, is punishable by up to five years in prison (with at least two additional years of supervised release) and/or a $250,000 fine. An individual who commits such a violation after a prior conviction for a drug offense faces up to ten years imprisonment (with at least four additional years of special parole) and/or increased fines. Those convicted of steroid trafficking are subject to punishment under the Federal Sentencing Guidelines, which link the seriousness of the offense to the quantity of steroids involved. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/32 "2006-03-08T00:30:42Z")
Or did I, my doctor, and Walgreens all break the law that Summer? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/33 "2006-03-08T00:32:15Z")
I’ll go on record as a first-class Bonds hater. But I need to repeat a very good counter point I heard on ESPN today, by the loathsome Bill Plaschke no less. The authors of this book are writers for the _San Fransisco Chronicle_. They have been writing articles on Bonds, BALCO and the scandal for a long time now. They undoubtedly have tons of information and have done tons of research. However there’s one giant question which can potentially put this book into doubt: **Why weren’t these claims, details and stories published in the _San Fransisco Chronicle_?** I’m inclined to suppose that the reason is because the “facts” in this book didn’t meet the traditional vetting process for a reputable newspaper. By publishing them in a book it allows them to editorialize and possibly bypass a rigorous fact checking process. The alternative is that they were sand-bagging on their facts in order to make a big pay-day with the book as opposed to publishing it for their comparatively meager news journalist salary. Both are possible, and they aren’t mutually exclusive. Both stand to put the credibility of the book into question and/or the motives of the authors in doubt. I think he used steroids, no doubt, but I’m not sure that this book is going to be the nail in the coffin on the debate. It might be the sledgehammer that galvanizes public opinion against him permanently, but that’s not to say that it’s in any way definitive. **Airman Doors** , I’m calling bullshit on your argument. You may or may not care that he used steroids, it’s your prerogative. However, you simply cannot compare it to corked bats, spitballs, short porches, high mounds and friendly strike zones. Yes he exploited a rule, gained a competitive advantage over his contemporaries. I’m not fundamentally against that practice, happens all the time. There’s one fact that you have to concede, he’s not only putting his own health at risk here. By abusing steroids, and by extension your forgiving and sorta aggrandizing it, you are implicitly forcing all the other players to put their health on the line in order to compete. The slippery slope essentially leads to teenagers who have dreams of playing professional baseball being forced to choose between using steroids to compete or giving up their dream. The story cited specifically claims that Bonds himself took steroids as a direct response to McGuire taking steroids and setting records. Presuming that guys like Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, Palmeiro and Canseco were the first to really abuse them in order to excel, how many of the current players have been forced to compromise their morals in order to compete by starting to use steroids. How many minor leaguers who are trying to punch their ticket to the show? Steroids have a viral effect that none of your analogies do. They also pose a clear health hazard that none of the other analogies do. Do you really want a sports landscape where the vast majority of players are using steroids? Do you want your offspring dreaming of one day becoming a professional athlete and being compelled to use steroids to fulfill that dream? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/34 "2006-03-08T00:36:53Z")
[Anabolic steroids are illegal.](Anabolic steroids are illegal.) > [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Steroids aren’t illegal. I was prescribed some by my doctor to fight a bad poison ivy infection. > > Fight my ignorance, tho. Are performance enhancing drugs (specific or general) illegal? I really want to know. Cites if possible please, one way or the other. [Anabolic steroids are illegal.](http://www.aap.org/family/steroids.htm) [The Balco timeline.](http://sfgate.com/news/special/pages/2004/balco/) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/35 "2006-03-08T00:38:55Z")
Thanks, **Mo**. So it’s the prescription that made the difference, right? (A nurse is usally a good source to ask about drugs. And sex.) Getting time outs everytime I try to post, so sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/36 "2006-03-08T00:41:39Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > It is, every day in virtually every sport. Why should we stop now. I don’t know; maybe because it’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/37 "2006-03-08T00:42:22Z")
Well, that and a low dosage corticosteroid isn’t the same thing as an anabolic steroid. If it were, you wouldn’t be nearly that good in bed. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/38 "2006-03-08T00:42:51Z")
Thanks also to **Contrapuntal**. (I think the Dope could use some fucking pwerformance enhancing. I can’t post shit god damn it!) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/39 "2006-03-08T00:47:02Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > **Airman Doors** , I’m calling bullshit on your argument. You may or may not care that he used steroids, it’s your prerogative. However, you simply cannot compare it to corked bats, spitballs, short porches, high mounds and friendly strike zones. Yes he exploited a rule, gained a competitive advantage over his contemporaries. I’m not fundamentally against that practice, happens all the time. There’s one fact that you have to concede, he’s not only putting his own health at risk here. By abusing steroids, and by extension your forgiving and sorta aggrandizing it, you are implicitly forcing all the other players to put their health on the line in order to compete. The slippery slope essentially leads to teenagers who have dreams of playing professional baseball being forced to choose between using steroids to compete or giving up their dream. You said the magic word: choose. How many of today’s athletes choose to use? I don’t care, because it was their choice. > [@](#): > > Do you really want a sports landscape where the vast majority of players are using steroids? It wouldn’t look much different than it does now. Can you tell when people are juicing just from looking at them? If so, MLB and the NFL really should get your phone number. > [@](#): > > Do you want your offspring dreaming of one day becoming a professional athlete and being compelled to use steroids to fulfill that dream? No, and I don’t want him doing smack either, but there comes a time when he has to make his own decisions. All I can do is teach him so he can make an informed decision on his own. I absolutely think steroids are bad, but when he’s an adult he can do whatever he wants to. Of course it scares me, but all I can do is my best and then hope it takes. Barry Bonds has been able to make informed decisions for 20+ years. It’s his call. When Aaron turns 18 (or cuts the coattails, whichever comes first) he’s on his own. I can help, I can guide, but I can’t order anymore. If he thinks he has to juice to win, well, then I’ve failed. But it’s his choice. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437/40 "2006-03-08T01:09:30Z")
Generally speaking I agree with you. I’m one of those guys who’s got an open mind towards legalization of pretty much all drugs. Personal liberty sounds fine to me. If you want to risk your health by using steriods, cocaine, pot or booze have at it. So long as you’re an adult, you can choose. From that perspective I agree with you. However, within the confines of sport, I don’t think that logic applies. A huge reason why sport is popular is because it’s accessible to the masses and most fans become fans as children when they’d sit in their room dreaming of playing for millions of dollars one day. That fandom and that dream can’t be compounded with the decision to use steriods or not. Nowadays future professional athletes begin their training and molding at a very young age, in the vast majority of cases it well before their 10th birthday. If steriods were permitted within profession sports (either explicitly or implicitly) these pre-adolecents would essentially be working towards a future in which they _must_ use steriods and put their health at risk to reach their goal. That’s not informed adults making their own choices. Permissiveness about steriods is not a political or liberatarian issue. By not condemning it’s use it will become pervasive, and if it becomes pervasive it’s use will not be a choice, it will be a requirement. The evil in that is exponentially compounded by the fact that it’ll be teenagers and pre-teens who are burdened with it. Right now the choice is whether to use or not. If steriods aren’t banned outright and condemned the choice will be whether to play or not to play, which is a whole different ballgame. Not only would it threaten the health of the althetes, it would threaten the popularity and health of the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barry-bonds-is-going-down/347437.md?page=3)