# Bars, Dress Codes and Racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-dress-codes-and-racism/560463 "2010-11-12T19:12:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-dress-codes-and-racism/560463/81 "2014-07-18T01:49:52Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You don’t know what it is “all” aimed at. But I will acknowledge that it can be done with that intent at least some of the time. I have a pretty good idea having known a fair amount of bar owners who’ve had to put some kind of dress code in place to weed out the trouble makers. My favorite bar was a blues bar. It was dedicated to music that came out of black culture in the United States. It’s clientele and the musicians that played there consisted of an equal or higher percentage of black people than the surrounding town. He learned early on to use a dress code to weed out the trouble makers. He had one of the lowest call-in rates to the police. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Yet why aren’t we hearing about bans of the kind of clothing white guys wear who tend to get into brawls? There are plenty of those types out there, but let’s face it: the people in power feel a lot more threatened by violence committed by young black men than by young white men. Because it’s not about race. The bars in Daytona ban biker colors/patches. Lets play “where’s Waldo” and find the black person in this [picture.](http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20140302/NEWS/140309915) It’s just as I stated before. They recognize the trouble makes and how they dress and weed them out. Now take bars that cater to the people who wear the clothing banned in the bar this thread is written about. They’ll assuredly have extra security with metal detectors at the door. Are they racist for acknowledging the reality of the violence? Or is the reality that young men (of all colors) who dress a certain way are exponentially more likely to start fights that escalate into serious violence. Are they sexist because of this? No mention of clothing worn by women. Should the security be removed? Should it be removed at bars that have a predominately white clientele because they experience a higher level of violence? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-dress-codes-and-racism/560463/82 "2014-07-18T02:04:26Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I would still prefer they do some kind of broader dress code that would eliminate those without targeting a certain group. Requiring shirts with collars, slacks rather than jeans, etc. It’s still the same argument you’re making. Black people getting screened out because clothing you deem culturally identifying is the target. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-dress-codes-and-racism/560463/83 "2014-07-18T03:51:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s still the same argument you’re making. Black people getting screened out because clothing you deem culturally identifying is the target. In my experience, having lived for several years in predominantly black neighborhoods, African Americans tend on average to be less likely than whites to wear really scruffy clothes. They (especially guys) like to “dress up”, although the way they do doesn’t always conform to the “white” way of dressing up. I think a lot of black guys would be cool with the expectation that they come in looking something like [this](http://cdn.hiphopwired.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/wirestringer.jpg), as long as the bar isn’t allowing white guys to come in looking like [this](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/09/article-2387814-1B37D00D000005DC-576_634x887.jpg). As I keep saying, the Bar Louie policy is just so absurdly specific and not conforming to any traditional or logical notion of what a dress code is about. > [@Magiver](#): > > Now take bars that cater to the people who wear the clothing banned in the bar this thread is written about. They’ll assuredly have extra security with metal detectors at the door. Are they racist for acknowledging the reality of the violence? Possibly, but I personally will not put up a fuss about it if they are making everyone go through the metal detectors. > [@](#): > > Should it be removed at bars that have a predominately white clientele because they experience a higher level of violence? I’m assuming you mean “lower” rather than “higher”? Otherwise I don’t really understand your question. But look: it is possible that there are scenarios where a bar owner in a certain location can only stay in business by essentially doing racial profiling with their security policy. Many liberals would argue that point and not give an inch–I would not, although I would still tend to believe they jump to this conclusion too quickly in many cases without exhausting other possibilities. However, if this is the situation a bar owner is in, that they have exhausted other possibilities but cannot stay in business unless they racially\* profile then I believe they should take the honorable option (B) and go out of business. Making money in such a way is essentially dirty money IMO. \*Or come very close to doing so; I’m aware of the hairs that can be split here. We can call it “culturally profiling”, if you are going to quibble that clothes are not part of someones race (though even that is arguable, as race is at least in part a cultural marker since there is no hard and fast biological definition of the term). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-dress-codes-and-racism/560463/84 "2014-07-18T04:37:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > In my experience, having lived for several years in predominantly black neighborhoods, African Americans tend on average to be less likely than whites to wear really scruffy clothes. They (especially guys) like to “dress up”, although the way they do doesn’t always conform to the “white” way of dressing up. It’s odd that you think in terms of conforming to the “white” way of dressing up. There’s no such metric. The term “you’re not white enough” doesn’t exist just as the dress code doesn’t exist. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > I think a lot of black guys would be cool with the expectation that they come in looking something like [this](http://cdn.hiphopwired.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/wirestringer.jpg), as long as the bar isn’t allowing white guys to come in looking like [this](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/09/article-2387814-1B37D00D000005DC-576_634x887.jpg). As I keep saying, the Bar Louie policy is just so absurdly specific and not conforming to any traditional or logical notion of what a dress code is about. Again, I find this odd because nobody cares how upscale you dress in any bar I go to. Want to come from work wearing a suit, fine. Shorts and a cabana shirt, knock yourself out. Jeans and a silly tee shirt, best of luck getting a woman to notice you but come on in and will clink glasses. I also find it odd that you’d want to go to a bar where the dress code to screed out violent people is “dress like upscale whitey”. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Possibly, but I personally will not put up a fuss about it if they are making everyone go through the metal detectors. Never been to a bar that has to screen people with a metal detector. It would be like putting a sign at the door “leave your guns in the car”. All that means is that the violence is going to spill into the streets and someone gets shot in the parking lot. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > However, if this is the situation a bar owner is in, that they have exhausted other possibilities but cannot stay in business unless they racially\* profile then I believe they should take the honorable option (B) and go out of business. Making money in such a way is essentially dirty money IMO. since they’re not screening based on race your argument is moot. It’s against the law to do so and the bar would be shut down. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-dress-codes-and-racism/560463/85 "2014-07-23T02:17:10Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > That’s a bullshit statement to make on a discussion board. Here is one who knows all but can not speak from experience. SlackerInc, time to move out of mommy’s basement. Buy a bar, then we’ll talk. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-dress-codes-and-racism/560463/86 "2014-07-23T04:44:10Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Here is one who knows all but can not speak from experience. SlackerInc, time to move out of mommy’s basement. Buy a bar, then we’ll talk. Keep your insults to yourself. Your one-liners are not productive and your insults will garner a Warning. Stop it. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-dress-codes-and-racism/560463/87 "2014-07-23T12:57:53Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > but this is a very specific list of “every way black people might dress” Well, unless they dress [like this](http://jeffreyhill.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341d417153ef0120a4cd8ee4970b-pi). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bars-dress-codes-and-racism/560463.md?page=4)