No sir. You have the wrong of it. I don’t want to marginalize anybody. People who aren’t allowed to participate in society very quickly become a danger to that society. You and Silenus and a few others are the ones who want to marginalize selected groups. I’m just interested why you draw your lines the way you appear to. Are you on board with marginalizing pedophiles, too, as was mentioned upthread? Or is it just the Nazis? Maybe I’d join in this marginalizing fest if I had a clear idea who it’s okay to exclude from society and who it isn’t? So, serial rapist does some time and I am supposed to welcome him back into society, but the yahoo who votes for David Duke I shouldn’t?
They’re fucking Nazis. That’s all the line drawing necessary. You may need some grand, unifying plan for marginalization - I don’t. The issue on the table is Nazis. I vote “Fuck 'em.”
You should do what your conscience tells you to do. Hire Nazis and serial rapists if you want. Just don’t tell me whom to hire.
We should marginalize Nazis and members of the KKK and anyone who publicly expresses support for them. Period. We should make them terrified of opening thier mouths in public to espouse an ideology that defines some humans as inferior to other humans based on ethnicity, religion, or whatever.
We should make them fear losing their jobs and families and homes through scorn and ridicule and social and commercial ostracism if they join a march expressing that point of view. This is an ideology that wishes many of us to be killed or subjugated or exiled. There’s no fucking around with that shit.
Can you give me a group against whom those tactics were used and it worked as planned?
Don’t know if it’s ever been tried at a societal level. Therefore we should do it…
For Science!
All I know is I ain’t givin’ no money to no Nazis!!
If it’s being used, it’s working “as planned”. That’s the point. The shunning is the goal. If nazis decide that they’d rather be quiet nazis in their basement, then fine. If they decide that maybe they’d rather not be nazis any more, then even better. The point is that everyone but the nazis decides that this ideology is so utterly abominable that it’s entirely incompatible with the possibility of being a decent person, both to be a significant deterrence to others from becoming nazis, and to demonstrate consequences to those who have already chosen to be nazis.
The only alternative that I can think of is that we all decide that being a nazi is just fine, or at least no more disgusting than most other ideologies. I don’t see how that results in a better society for anyone but the nazis.
We shouldn’t marginalize Nazis, otherwise they might do something really crazy… like BECOME NAZIS!!!
We can marginalize whosofuckever we wish and feel good about ourselves, if feeling good about ourselves is our primary goal. Or, and I know this is crazy talk, we could try to keep everybody engaged in society and change the Nazis/Commies/Fundies/Social Outcasts of the Day for the better. Nazism is an evil ideology. It attracts people who already have little feeling of investment in the existing/evolving social order. You can change that feeling (whether it is justified or not) or you can push them all the way over into Jihadi territory where they think their only real option is to violently destroy the social order. Or, as I told Silenus upthread, you can man up and eliminate them with a good ol’ fashioned purge.
But anyway, everybody including me loathes Nazis, they’re easy to hate. We had at least one vote for going ahead and marginalizing them along with pedophiles. Let’s not let that get lost in the shuffle here. There seems to be a consensus that Nazis can be marginalized because they choose to be Nazis. Is it okay for me to marginalize pedophiles? What if the pedophile is an ex-con? Is it okay now? Do we have to take it into account if it turns out Nazis hate pedophiles?
We do all that too. The marginalization is for the assholes leftover for whom it doesn’t take. And there will always be such assholes. I’m all for education and trying to reform bigots and all that. And for those few for whom this all fails to work, they can and should be marginalized.
Sorry, but I’m not letting my business fail because some Nazi might otherwise feel marginalized. Many of my customers and vendors are minorities whom the Nazi is trying to, at best, deport or, at worst, kill.
Why didn’t you just say it was about money? I thought you pretending to take some kind of moral stand.
Note emphasis added in my post. The link is not in the OP.
False dichotomy, but see post #67.
I don’t, on principle, give money to Nazis. And I don’t put my business at risk so that some snowflake Nazi gets a participation trophy.
If the employees were mostly younger adults and/or college students, that might not be the case.
Hey, if you want to go hang out with Nazis, or hire them for your business, go right ahead. I don’t see anyone here trying to stop you.
I’d gladly contribute money toward the construction of a Community Serial-Rapist, Nazi, and Pedophile Recreation Center. That way they’d be marginalized but could hang out together and shoot some hoops or play cards.
But I would not hire the nasty fuckers.
Good of you to echo something that a lot of people have already said;; you do have a talent for that. It is still a mischaracterization of my point. I have explicitly stated that I loathe Nazis. I do not consider the method under discussion a good way of handling them or reducing their numbers. It has not solved the pedophilia problem, now has it? It is a demonstrable negative as shown by its effect on ex-cons. People who aren’t allowed to be a part of society feel no obligation to follow society’s rules.
Nazis have already decided they are not or do not want to be obligated to follow society’s rules; that’s the whole point of them being a Nazi. Duh. And the fact that they’re already Nazis is why we marginalize them. Again, duh.
There were times in history in which hating Jews, or hating black people, or similar, were entirely acceptable opinions to hold. Those times were much, much worse for Jews, black people, and other groups, since such advocacy didn’t get nearly as much or as strong push-back.
Wouldn’t your preferred approach greatly increase the risk of the same kind of increased danger to black people, Jews, gay people, etc., as the lack of marginalization of such advocacy did in the past?